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[Senn Typhos]

Well yes Senn, yes it can

But not in here. Given the info provided in Templar One, how we know Tibus and Ishokune to work from before and etc. I'd say the title of traitors is subjective to a few different viewpoints. We can debate this in mail if you want, send me one with the arguments for Ishokune's treason and I'll reply with counter-arguments.

No, it really can't.

Any collaboration with the Federation, outside of the necessity of trade of course, is a direct denial of Statist ideology. And since 6 of the Big 8 are Patriots and Practicals, it's a betrayal of the Hethist administration. There's really no debate to be had.

The simple fact is, if we're forced to play as Ishukone-made soldiers, almost guaranteed by Heth's denial of immortal soldiers, CCP is gonna lose a lot of customers who would rather play as patriots.

[Esna Pitoojee]

There's also the fact that, following whenever Heth barred Ishukone students from the STI, any EVE players who decide to have their STI-graduated characters affiliated with Ishukone are officially doinitwrong.

At least, my understanding is you don't easily swap between Megas, so that's how it'd seem to me.

[Ghost Hunter]

So far the presence of the Talocan remains unexplained (unless they're the Enhuehuehuehue).

Over all disappointed with their direction on the Sleepers, they strike me more as a Jovian knock off now and the Enhuehuehue are not helping their place in the story all that well.

Thanks for posting, Soter.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Well. From the summary I can tell that if I read this book it'll be the cheapest copy I can get hold of. Might even wait for it to get into my local public library (while it's still there).

And I still say we should treat all of the Tony G stuff as fiction created within the game. The fact that it happens to feature some people that are leading personalities of the cluster is purely coincidental. If would be particularly funny if someone tries to use this stuff as IC knowledge.

"Yes, I saw that holo series too. Thought the acting was terrible. Frankly I'm suprised that Heth/Jamyl (insert name of relevant NPC) didn't sue the makers."

[Vendrin]

For those of you who don't like TonyG's work, you have valid reasons, but sorry it's PF. Hand waving it away just won't work once it becomes built upon by future installations of PF.

So the only faction in the State getting the DUST tech, and subsequently the only group eligible to play for in the console game, are the traitors to the State.

Hardly. Do you think Ishukone is stupid enough to try to hoard the tech for itself and make it even more of a pariah? It will do exactly what it did with the capsule, market it, hold the rights and make so much ISK selling the right to use it to the other corporations. Tibus Heth won't be able to stop the other mega corps from wanting to use it as every other major force in the cluster will have it.

[Senn Typhos]

For those of you who don't like TonyG's work, you have valid reasons, but sorry it's PF. Hand waving it away just won't work once it becomes built upon by future installations of PF.

So the only faction in the State getting the DUST tech, and subsequently the only group eligible to play for in the console game, are the traitors to the State.

Hardly. Do you think Ishukone is stupid enough to try to hoard the tech for itself and make it even more of a pariah? It will do exactly what it did with the capsule, market it, hold the rights and make so much ISK selling the right to use it to the other corporations. Tibus Heth won't be able to stop the other mega corps from wanting to use it as every other major force in the cluster will have it.

Well, they were stupid enough to make themselves the pariah Mega of the entire State. And in your scenario, things aren't much better. It just means that instead of working directly for the traitors, your soldier was made with some price paid to the traitors. Ishukone still gets the most profit and most benefit. There's no true patriotic option, whatever happens.

CCP could possibly pull something to save us from that downside. Corporate espionage is rife throughout the State, so there's a slim chance one of the Patriots could acquire the tech without helping the traitors.

[Valdezi]

For those of you who don't like TonyG's work, you have valid reasons, but sorry it's PF. Hand waving it away just won't work once it becomes built upon by future installations of PF.

So the only faction in the State getting the DUST tech, and subsequently the only group eligible to play for in the console game, are the traitors to the State.

Hardly. Do you think Ishukone is stupid enough to try to hoard the tech for itself and make it even more of a pariah? It will do exactly what it did with the capsule, market it, hold the rights and make so much ISK selling the right to use it to the other corporations. Tibus Heth won't be able to stop the other mega corps from wanting to use it as every other major force in the cluster will have it.

Well, they were stupid enough to make themselves the pariah Mega of the entire State. And in your scenario, things aren't much better. It just means that instead of working directly for the traitors, your soldier was made with some price paid to the traitors. Ishukone still gets the most profit and most benefit. There's no true patriotic option, whatever happens.

CCP could possibly pull something to save us from that downside. Corporate espionage is rife throughout the State, so there's a slim chance one of the Patriots could acquire the tech without helping the traitors.

I don't understand this. Do you hate Ishukone OOCly as well? Why do your Dust character and your EVE character have to come from the same faction?

[Senn Typhos]

For those of you who don't like TonyG's work, you have valid reasons, but sorry it's PF. Hand waving it away just won't work once it becomes built upon by future installations of PF.

So the only faction in the State getting the DUST tech, and subsequently the only group eligible to play for in the console game, are the traitors to the State.

Hardly. Do you think Ishukone is stupid enough to try to hoard the tech for itself and make it even more of a pariah? It will do exactly what it did with the capsule, market it, hold the rights and make so much ISK selling the right to use it to the other corporations. Tibus Heth won't be able to stop the other mega corps from wanting to use it as every other major force in the cluster will have it.

Well, they were stupid enough to make themselves the pariah Mega of the entire State. And in your scenario, things aren't much better. It just means that instead of working directly for the traitors, your soldier was made with some price paid to the traitors. Ishukone still gets the most profit and most benefit. There's no true patriotic option, whatever happens.

CCP could possibly pull something to save us from that downside. Corporate espionage is rife throughout the State, so there's a slim chance one of the Patriots could acquire the tech without helping the traitors.

I don't understand this. Do you hate Ishukone OOCly as well? Why do your Dust character and your EVE character have to come from the same faction?

I don't "hate" Ishukone OOCly. Asking why I don't just make a different faction soldier for DUST, it's in the same vein as asking the Amarrians why they don't just make characters that aren't affected by Tony's depiction of Jamyl.

I would rather play a Patriot, and CCP appears to be denying me the option. It's just irritating. vOv

[Verone]

I'm really torn about Eve's Backstory now.

On one hand, I love the politics, I love the power play between the Caldari Megacorps, the dissent in the Federation between different political groups who've got different views on how the Fed should retaliate, I love the chaos that ensued when Midular was ousted, and the resurgence of support for Shakor in her place.

I love the fact that Karsoth was a blood-raider bastard with ulterior motives, and that the Empire is so feudal, Eve has such a rich background in terms of political and technological backstory that can be expanded upon.

On the other hand, all this shit about an illuminati, the Enheduanni, the sleepers and whatnot is just utter, total horse shit.

I would honestly LOVE it, if none of that crap had ever been written and Eve was just a dark, dismal, harsh cluster of systems where power and money were savagely thrown around, and politics and trading were horrendously cut-throat.

The backstory of Eve has been horribly bastardised in the last few years with total crap that's been designed to appeal to the masses, rather than the niche market of what Eve was originally.

I've got Templar one sat here right in front of me on the desk, I haven't bothered reading it because I'm too afraid it's going to once again shit all over what was once a phenomenal IP and setting.

I think I'll just read The Burning Life again, and forget the other two books even exist.

[Julianus Soter]

I'm really torn about Eve's Backstory now.

On one hand, I love the politics, I love the power play between the Caldari Megacorps, the dissent in the Federation between different political groups who've got different views on how the Fed should retaliate, I love the chaos that ensued when Midular was ousted, and the resurgence of support for Shakor in her place.

I love the fact that Karsoth was a blood-raider bastard with ulterior motives, and that the Empire is so feudal, Eve has such a rich background in terms of political and technological backstory that can be expanded upon.

On the other hand, all this shit about an illuminati, the Enheduanni, the sleepers and whatnot is just utter, total horse shit.

I would honestly LOVE it, if none of that crap had ever been written and Eve was just a dark, dismal, harsh cluster of systems where power and money were savagely thrown around, and politics and trading were horrendously cut-throat.

The backstory of Eve has been horribly bastardised in the last few years with total crap that's been designed to appeal to the masses, rather than the niche market of what Eve was originally.

I've got Templar one sat here right in front of me on the desk, I haven't bothered reading it because I'm too afraid it's going to once again shit all over what was once a phenomenal IP and setting.

I think I'll just read The Burning Life again, and forget the other two books even exist.

I would tend to disagree, though, in as much as that the vast majority of the universe -only- knows that the cluster is a dark lonely place with vast amounts of money being thrown around and conflicts waged for petty personal reasons about backwater worlds.

Tony G hasn't promoted the Enheduanni in Templar One; that was done in the often-praised Theodicy. What Templar One does is drag them back down to the human level and muddy them up a bit. They're just misguided manipulative leaders that were conflicted about allowing a virtual intelligence to survive, and they're paying for the consequences of that decision now. Their powers aren't godlike; just the result of thousands of years of toil and effort.

The world of Humanity in the present day and age is a early science fiction. There aren't transporters, replicators, vastly powerful interstellar warp drives, dyson spheres, time travel, any of that bullshit. The Enheduanni approach the level of 'Star Trek Next Generation' technology, perhaps. Why do we freak out about them so much and gnash our teeth whenever such a commonly discussed level of science fiction technology is interjected once in a while? And if the Enheduanni are Next Generation, then the Jove are Star Trek: Enterprise level tech, where they haven't even mastered transporters yet. The last time they tried, their ambassador was split into interstellar gunk between twenty regions. Given the Architects aren't sharing their secrets any longer with the Jove, further advancement at this point seems unlikely.

Indeed, the story of the Jove is the pinnacle of eve-onliney dark grimeyness. The one civilization that had a chance at utopia fucked it up. Fucked it up baddddd. And they've now pretty much caused their own extinction, as well as endangering the rest of their brethren in humanity by allowing for a destructive artificial intelligence to gain power and survive. Perhaps it's the juxtaposition between the high-tech world of the jove and the low-tech world of, say, Mens Reppola and Ishukone, but balancing those two worlds is a remarkable feat and an enjoyable contrast in storytelling. TL:DR: I didn't find anything particularly objectionable in the book.

[Lyn Farel]

How do you all dare to spit on so much epicness ?

[Julianus Soter]

How do you all dare to spit on so much epicness ?

What is this in reference to, lyn? XD

[Kyoko Sakoda]

I think it looks potentially better than TEA, but I'm still scared to read it. So I just read the spoilers here.

[Valdezi]

For those of you who don't like TonyG's work, you have valid reasons, but sorry it's PF. Hand waving it away just won't work once it becomes built upon by future installations of PF.

So the only faction in the State getting the DUST tech, and subsequently the only group eligible to play for in the console game, are the traitors to the State.

Hardly. Do you think Ishukone is stupid enough to try to hoard the tech for itself and make it even more of a pariah? It will do exactly what it did with the capsule, market it, hold the rights and make so much ISK selling the right to use it to the other corporations. Tibus Heth won't be able to stop the other mega corps from wanting to use it as every other major force in the cluster will have it.

Well, they were stupid enough to make themselves the pariah Mega of the entire State. And in your scenario, things aren't much better. It just means that instead of working directly for the traitors, your soldier was made with some price paid to the traitors. Ishukone still gets the most profit and most benefit. There's no true patriotic option, whatever happens.

CCP could possibly pull something to save us from that downside. Corporate espionage is rife throughout the State, so there's a slim chance one of the Patriots could acquire the tech without helping the traitors.

I don't understand this. Do you hate Ishukone OOCly as well? Why do your Dust character and your EVE character have to come from the same faction?

I don't "hate" Ishukone OOCly. Asking why I don't just make a different faction soldier for DUST, it's in the same vein as asking the Amarrians why they don't just make characters that aren't affected by Tony's depiction of Jamyl.

I would rather play a Patriot, and CCP appears to be denying me the option. It's just irritating. vOv

I suppose that's fair enough.

[Julianus Soter]

The point is, at least by the time of pikes landing, robust heth is ideologically opposed to super soldiers, and is now heavily in debt to Concord for saving his hide from the myoklar attack. If he betrays his promise to Concord now, and proceeds with adoption in the rest of the state military, then concord might send him a little message.

Another thing to mention is the radicalization of the Inner Circle. The are now hell bent on enforcing the mandate, without knowing anything about the larger context of the Architects or Other.