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[Silas Vitalia]

The Caldari State waged their civil war and left the Federation because of intrusive government and cultural control by a central authority. Has Tibus Heth not become what the Caldari once hated so thoroughly?

I thought the State was already built on an all-intrusive authority dictating just about everything? Your megacorp is yours for life; they choose your job, they choose everything about your daily grind, and you all work at the best of your ability towards the goals of the Megacorp / State?

I'm not an expert on anything State but I thought the society in general was collectivist and all working top-down towards group goals set by those in charge?

[Mithfindel]

State as a collectivist entity: Correct, up to the corporate level, where they do have considerable autonomy. Heth does even have a latinate name, obviously Gallentean corruption.

Haven't read the story, and based on the limited information available, likely won't waste my money on it, but as of previous information, lots of disenchanted Patriot folks would actually have a potential career in Mordu's Legion Command. That said, previous information told us that Mordu's little gang was in a good standing with the Caldari Navy and other authorities due to display of will to mobilize when Heth had took over Caldari Prime. So how the "current" situation comes from that might be a bit unclear (if I've understood things right), unless we'll see a Caldari civil war. (Yeah right, FW is hard coded to be a forever war.)

[Kyoko Sakoda]

Tibus Heth is as much the State as Hitler is/was Germany. Terrible things happen to states. Sometimes idiots take control of them. Remember that fascists previously held power in the Gallente Federation. That doesn't mean the state is inherently bad. Plenty of Germans opposed Hitler, and this is maybe even more so in the State's case. Ishukone is a pretty damn big megacorp. Hyasyoda doesn't seem to love him, either.

Some of the story might be shit, but roll with it. Don't allow your enjoyment of the core game to get stuck in the mud because of words.

[Hamish Grayson]

.

[Kyoko Sakoda]

Yes that was a rant, and not coherent. My main point is the last sentence, though.

[Ulphus]

Don't allow your enjoyment of the core game to get stuck in the mud because of words.

When a lot of my enjoyment of the game is because of words it seems unreasonable to expect that words cannot also diminish that enjoyment.

[Kyoko Sakoda]

But you also must realize that you're in the less than 1%-tile of the EVE community that cares about this. I'm honestly surprised at the size of EVE's story-writing and content team considering.

CCP wanted to branch into ancillary products and they didn't do a good job of that. I happen to think that CCP and White Wolf never should have merged. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but mine is that CCP was founded as a game company and first and foremost they will focus on game design. I'm a cynic and don't believe that if a few roleplayers quit over some crappy novels that CCP will take notice.

My advice in that scenario is to play the game anyway, because we do all enjoy it for the game, too.

[Ulphus]

My advice in that scenario is to play the game anyway, because we do all enjoy it for the game, too.

* Ulphus shrugs

I don't think I'd still be playing Eve if it wasn't for the people I am roleplaying with, or have roleplayed with.

I agree with your point that CCP probably won't care if a bunch of Rpers stop playing because of their PF, but the game itself as a game isn't more fun than a lot of other games I've played and stopped playing when they got dull.

Eve, as a social forum though, it's still drawing me back.

[Myrhial Arkenath]

Because this thread had a big spoiler warning on it, I've avoided it like the plague until I now finished reading the novel. I've poured my thoughts into a blog post.

In short, I feel a lot of TonyG hate is unjustified and that this book was an improvement on the previous one. I do agree lots of things aren't usable IC directly, but then again it's a novel and not an infodump chronicle. I could criticize those because they're trying to make a story out of facts. Honestly though, I think both play their role in storytelling. Also, I like to think that things not being usable IC is a redeeming factor, because the haters can be very right in just dismissing all information

[BloodBird]

I can't speak for the tens of thousands of other EVE players or the role players on this forum, but here is my take on this.

It was never about what is, and what is not, usable in an IC way. It's about what's happened to the EVE Online universe and the setting in it.

When I started playing EVE had a setting with 5 major Empires, 4 playable and a multitude of smaller factions between them. Some allied to specific Empires, some independent, some lawful, some not. The Empires all had different flavors, different styles, different ideas and different ways. They all had their quirks and negative factors and past wars and interactions with one-another that sometimes went smoothly, many times not.

Things happened in space, things happened in the news, players did stuff and sometimes it was reported. The universe felt alive, moving, tangible and REAL. These were human societies lucked down with their different ideals and burdened by their different histories and tales of how badly they had fucked each other over in the past, even if they did officially have peace... at the time. Human societies doing human things with their bit more/bit less than human capsuleer prodigies doing whatever. It was believable, it was nice and in many ways, somewhat simple.

Today, due to a variety of reasons, we have what one player on these very boards refereed to as "A cheap space opera". An opera is usually about some large, grand goal and events far beyond 'mere' humans. This is what EVE has become. All the different factions, all their nuances, differences, ideals and means have been used, twisted around, morphed and sometimes down-right fucked over all to deliver this 'grand epic fucking story' and one can't take a single step without finding something that's either a relic of an abandoned setting and story or something that's a small piece on this grand, majestic opera setting. The empires are catalysts for the epic storyline. There is more than it seems going on. EVERYWHERE. Old ideals and settings are constantly pissed on to make way for what seems convenient for whatever the next big reveal is.

I miss the news that was not some build-up for some major event, but just news, tid-bits of things happening in a universe of humans trying to get by from day-to-day. I miss the human Empires, I miss the clear-cut ideas for what who and what stood for, I miss the time when this whole universe was not just... a cheap B-grade thriller flick, instead of an A-grade story of life and how fucked-up it can be at times. I really miss that.

Apologies ahead if I fail to make myself clear. I'm not even sure myself how to say this so I'll leave this here before I rant on.

In closing in like to state that everything is not entirely bad. I'm just the nostalgic who would like to see some semblance of 'normality' descend on EVE again.

[Ulphus]

Bloodbird, I think what you're saying is something like:
It used to be a cluster of lots of small stories, they had variety and believability, and I could be the hero of one of the small stories.

Now it's a cluster of one big story, and all the little nuances have been paved over to service that one big story; and I can't be the hero of that big story.

If so, then I agree with you. If not, then I've misunderstood; could you try to point out where I went wrong? (Possibly I'm seeing that hero thing through my own predjudices, but it is one of the things I see as the big difference between the two positions)

[BloodBird]

Mostly correct, but the hero bit was completely off. Not sure who of us are to blame for that one.

The good old 'your the hero!' BS is one of the most glaring down-falls of WoW and a mild case can be seen in TOR. I don't WANT to be the god damn hero. I just want to be a part of the bigger universe, a player among countless others, not THE FUCKING HERO of the show. I do wonder if that would be to much to ask.

Rest is mostly spot-on; I'd love a 'normal' believable universe where everything don't lead up to the 'big epic ending'. I'm playing an MMO - I'm not reading a book/watching a movie.

[Ulphus]

Mostly correct, but the hero bit was completely off. Not sure who of us are to blame for that one.

Probably me.

Rest is mostly spot-on; I'd love a 'normal' believable universe where everything don't lead up to the 'big epic ending'. I'm playing an MMO - I'm not reading a book/watching a movie.

A lot of "normal" movie or literature tropes don't work when there isn't actually an end, which is why I don't like them applied to face-to-face RPGs or indeed MMOs. It's possible that the big disconnect between TonyG and Eve is that TonyG is writing a book with the whole book plot format, and Eve as a game doesn't support the world changing climax paradigm at all.

I think we agree.

[Alain Colcer]

I actually liked to consider myself the little guy "anti-hero", within the GalFed 

[Myrhial Arkenath]

I see your point Bloodbird, and I half agree. I would like to see more of the smaller stuff, because indeed there has been a focus on big stuff. But on the other hand, we need some big stuff too.

I think with the last dev blog on the chronicles, we'll see more of them again, and thus order may be restored again. I do hope so.