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[Sakura Imoru]

Maybe, but the human nature and the fact that debauchery and decadence repeated themselves inside theocracies time and time again makes it more likely then an actually working one, doesn't it?

"It always happens" is neither an original, nor an interesting means by which to write fiction.

It's a realistical approach though. And afair is "keeping it real" an important part of RP, everthing else is bordering on godmodding (pun intended).

[Senn Typhos]

Maybe, but the human nature and the fact that debauchery and decadence repeated themselves inside theocracies time and time again makes it more likely then an actually working one, doesn't it?

"It always happens" is neither an original, nor an interesting means by which to write fiction.

It's a realistical approach though. And afair is "keeping it real" an important part of RP, everthing else is bordering on godmodding (pun intended).

Realistic, yes, insofar as it happened in the past in real world history.

Reducing nations to their lowest common denominator, however, is not conducive to a healthy fiction base. Tony seems to subscribe to the tactic of putting the nations in their respective "boxes" and writing off of that narrative. It takes away the subtlety and value in the same way CCP ruined the "grey-area" behavior of Nation.

The Borgia operated underhandedly because they knew how to keep secrets. The whole game of hoarding power comes down to knowing which secrets to keep and which secrets to let everyone know.

[Sakura Imoru]

Maybe, but the human nature and the fact that debauchery and decadence repeated themselves inside theocracies time and time again makes it more likely then an actually working one, doesn't it?

"It always happens" is neither an original, nor an interesting means by which to write fiction.

It's a realistical approach though. And afair is "keeping it real" an important part of RP, everthing else is bordering on godmodding (pun intended).

Realistic, yes, insofar as it happened in the past in real world history.

Reducing nations to their lowest common denominator, however, is not conducive to a healthy fiction base. Tony seems to subscribe to the tactic of putting the nations in their respective "boxes" and writing off of that narrative. It takes away the subtlety and value in the same way CCP ruined the "grey-area" behavior of Nation.

The Borgia operated underhandedly because they knew how to keep secrets. The whole game of hoarding power comes down to knowing which secrets to keep and which secrets to let everyone know.

Don't forget though that not all readers are playing EvE. Therefor you have to exaggerate some things to make people who don't play understand the flaws of the 4 empires.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Exaggerating one group to be nothing but reprehensible and thoroughly flawed whilst at the same time ignoring or denying the existence of certain flaws in others tends to be fairly dull writing and poor form to boot, however.

[Sakura Imoru]

Commiting mass murder in order to clean the Matari government of Amarrian collaborateurs (Elders), hijacking a Nyx to ram it in a station in order to silence the opposition so you can wage war against the Gallente (Heth) or being a bribable Grand Admiral of the Federal Navy (Eturrer) aren't anything I would consider virtues

[Myyona]

Frankly, those are peanuts to a whole society of hypocrites and sexual deviants. It is like Tony is trying to excuse the Amarr from being religious fanatics by going "look, they do know themselves it is a big lie and they do sex too, extravagant even."

Maybe he simply do not like religion or religious people.

[Sakura Imoru]

Frankly, those are peanuts to a whole society of hypocrites and sexual deviants. It is like Tony is trying to excuse the Amarr from being religious fanatics by going "look, they do know themselves it is a big lie and they do sex too, extravagant even."

Maybe he simply do not like religion or religious people.

YMMV on the more lethal ones I mentioned, but I do see your point. I just wanted to tell that I can't understand all the hate Tony recieves for portraying the Amarr in the most likely way and that by no way he describes the other three as flawless or do-gooders.

(editted because of typo)

[Senn Typhos]

Maybe, but the human nature and the fact that debauchery and decadence repeated themselves inside theocracies time and time again makes it more likely then an actually working one, doesn't it?

"It always happens" is neither an original, nor an interesting means by which to write fiction.

It's a realistical approach though. And afair is "keeping it real" an important part of RP, everthing else is bordering on godmodding (pun intended).

Realistic, yes, insofar as it happened in the past in real world history.

Reducing nations to their lowest common denominator, however, is not conducive to a healthy fiction base. Tony seems to subscribe to the tactic of putting the nations in their respective "boxes" and writing off of that narrative. It takes away the subtlety and value in the same way CCP ruined the "grey-area" behavior of Nation.

The Borgia operated underhandedly because they knew how to keep secrets. The whole game of hoarding power comes down to knowing which secrets to keep and which secrets to let everyone know.

Don't forget though that not all readers are playing EvE. Therefor you have to exaggerate some things to make people who don't play understand the flaws of the 4 empires.

Yeah, this is something I brought up in another forum section, Tony isn't writing for just EVE players... which, imo, kind of ruins the books from the start.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Maybe, but the human nature and the fact that debauchery and decadence repeated themselves inside theocracies time and time again makes it more likely then an actually working one, doesn't it?

"It always happens" is neither an original, nor an interesting means by which to write fiction.

It's a realistical approach though. And afair is "keeping it real" an important part of RP, everthing else is bordering on godmodding (pun intended).

Here's the thing; having read the extract about the orgy.

Being a decadent noble is one thing, and believable. Flaunting your decadence in front of a faithful (in both senses of the word) retainer and thus undermining his loyalty to you is extremely dumb. The families that get to be imperial heirs & the like should be shown as having some political savvy.

[Seriphyn]

From Ruthless...

"Religion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency."

- Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220

Right, considering the multireligious Federation likely has more religious believers (Intaki, Minmatar etc.) than non-religious people. From that, he is obviously shoehorning his own anti-religious beliefs into his work.

The Gallente Admiral Elijah Freeman is, also, a RL friend of TonyG who is working on DUST. Go figure.

[Verone]

From Ruthless...

"Religion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency."

- Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220

Right, considering the multireligious Federation likely has more religious believers (Intaki, Minmatar etc.) than non-religious people. From that, he is obviously shoehorning his own anti-religious beliefs into his work.

The Gallente Admiral Elijah Freeman is, also, a RL friend of TonyG who is working on DUST. Go figure.

I'm just wondering offhand where you're coming from and where you're citing the Federation being "multi-religious" and in what context you mean it.

I've not seen it mentioned in PF at all.

[Seriphyn]

Despite all this Foiritan is very much aware that being the leader of a democratic state, especially one as volatile as the Federation with all its ethnic, religious and economic differences, is a position built on quicksand.

Also, probably the opening of this article.

The Federation is emphasized for its ultra-diversity. If that includes ethnicity and culture, it's going to include religion too. Amarr immigrants and their religion, Ni-Kunni immigrants and theirs, Caldari spiritualists, the Minmatar and each of their four (possibly seven now) tribal religions, the Intaki religion, and whatever religion(s) the ethnic Gallente have, as well as Jin-Mei and Mannar. Melting pot ideas on death as well, and implying there's a whole bunch of hybrid and fusion religions/beliefs.

[Sakura Imoru]

And wasn't there even a Sani-Sabik-popstar?

[Myyona]

I noticed yesterday that some Gallente even worship Lutins.

[lallara zhuul]

It seems odd to me that theocracies are being singled out as corrupt debauched deviant whatnots.

Such corruption is in all positions of power.

Let's take for example the most prosperous and long lived Republic of all, Rome.

The whole concept of orgy originates from there.

The renaissance examples about theocracies really do not fly that well, mainly because of the time, renaissance, at the time religion was pretty much seen as nothing else than bullshit, the old values from the Roman Empire and Greece were worshiped, hence orgies and whatnot.

What was done by the Borgias was nothing compared to what the nobility was doing everywhere during that time, because it was commonplace.

Everyone has come across the stories of French courts, there was nutty kings in England killing their wives, general incest among the nobility and all those jolly good things that have been seen as the bad side of monarchies.

Papal states were built on the foundation of the old Roman Empire, thus making its roots rotten and corrupt.
So were the monarchies of Europe.

In human history there is very few examples of pure theocracies (societies built from scratch into theocracies) hence I would say that there are no real examples on its inherent corruption.

Only real life examples would be the Jews, and how their society has been run through the ages (of course there are differences between the Amarr and the Jews) and of course the Islamic States that are following Sharia. You could add the Vatican into the list, but basically it is just a 'special' State in Italy, not a country.

Of course I am rambling here.
At this time and age that we are living in, it is okay to hate religion, it is okay to laugh at people that are dumber than you and it is all right to be an utter twat on the internet.

I think this combination shows in the way the Amarrian Empire has been portrayed by the PF after the original background information of EVE was given to the players in the shape of chronicles.

But I digress, I'll go get something to eat.