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[Seriphyn]

A while ago, someone semi-trolled on the EVE Fiction forums about finding an Amarr RP corp that does not play a "Roman fantasy", and it does make me go a bit "Eh" at the whole Latin connection with Amarr.

So I hear that AURORA used Latin, and that seems to be the be-all-end-all that Amarr are Latin, period. But I doubt if AURORA used Russian for Fed NPCs, everyone would say that the Fed's primary language is Russian. If I was a new player, I would not be privy to the overt French references anymore (they've been scaled back considerably). Instead, I would extrapolate that from the system and agent names, etc. I would know that the main Fed language is not Russian because of systems like Anchauttes etc. In the same way, Amarr system/agent names are decidedly Persian and Arabic in their styles. There's no Civictus Sextus or Octavinum anywhere other than some obscure references (the AURORA thing would class as 'obscure' to anyone who was not present). Indeed, looking at the Amarr names from the chargen, the same thing applies. Ardishapur for example is quite obviously named after the Sassanid King Shapur I. And "Jamyl" sounds like a futuristic "Jasmine" to me.

In fact, I'm sure loads of Amarr players have faced off against Gallente NPCs, and noticed their distinct Greco-Roman naming styles (Legionarius, Centurion, Praktor, Libertus, Helepolis, Hastarius, Quadrieris etc.). The glaring Greek naming of Gallente ships one would figure would be obvious enough, with both Latin/Greek having long linguistic ties to one another. This to me says how the Rouvenour empire people were likely a hybrid of High Western Europe and Greco-Roman influences, and this has historical influences of the modern day Gallenteans. But if you look at ANY Amarr system or agent name, there's no Latin to be seen at all.

That being said, it's not all or nothing. Gallente languages/dialects would include English by that measure if one looks at names like Harner and Crendraven, while the Federation capital is Italian. It goes back to this obsession we have as RPers to attempt to relate as much as EVE as possible to RL references (also begs the question, why the hell don't we do this with Star Wars or any other sci-fi universe?). For example, the Federation is NOT a United States in space, it is NOT a Europe in space. To me, it is a supranational union (ie. Systems Alliance) of many different planets and colonies under a central authority that sets domestic regulations/limits and foreign affairs, and is in charge of security. That doesn't sound anything like the US tbh, considering the US is land-based. The primary language/dialects of the Gallente (excl. minorities) just so happen to sound Romance in origin. Same way, Amarr is not the Roman Empire; it is an interstellar empire with a feudal hierarchy.

I dunno. I'm not about to say the Feds are a bunch of Germans because Germany also happens to be a democratic federation, or are Mexicans or Brazilians for that matter (or even Russians). I look at what's in-game, and I see a Romance-based language. Same reasoning with Amarr. I don't see where AURORA (which a newbie would have no idea about) has PF priority over stuff like system/agent names.

I suppose the point of this is more the notion if we could quit trying to relate everything we have in-game to RL references. It defantasizes and cheapens the universe, and we just don't do it with other sci-fi universes ("Galactic Republic is the United States!").

[Lyn Farel]

Well yes, we always face a lot of things that are often "overdone" or pushed too far by players without even noticing it.

To begin with, I think people do not do that with Star Wars for example because Star Wars is a Space Op fantasy thing. It may borrow a lot of RL references, but it is still a fantasy. Eve, whatever people can say, actually TRIES to fit to RL realism, plus Eve also uses RL references to define its factions. And, of course, PF also includes the fact that Earth existed in a long forgotten past, which might right some bells unconsciously for players...

Anyway, I have always seen latin/ancient greek not like ZE AMARR official language or anything, but something more shared by the whole cluster at different scales. You see latin everywhere. The gallente NPC military ship designation like you said, some bits here and there in scriptures or news/texts related to the Amarr, or even the new incursions Sansha ships : Tegmentum [latin], Cerebellum [latin] Hypophysis [ancient greek], etc. I see it exactly like it is currently RL, as a dead language used mostly for science or religion. I still see it as an important part of the Scriptures and the amarrian religion (players participating in PF), but nothing more. I also see it as an obvious sciencey language : we use english for common language in eve, so why not latin for science designations ? And thats not even a "why not", its a fact. When people refer to science latin names ICly, they use latin names. Want to speak about a medical pathology with sciencey terms ? You use latin, even in Eve.


Sidenote : the gallente capital ? Villore ?

[Merdaneth]

The Amarr don't speak language anymore than other factions, or even we capsuleers, speak english.

Latin is an easy way to express the feeling that someone is using an archaic ceremonial language. The shift in language is an RP tool, not a representation of the EVE world.

The very first thing that I noticed about EVE is the sumerian/akkadian/persian naming scheme the Amarr seemed to use. Just another trick to create the sense of an exotic, ancient and ritual-dominated culture.

I honestly don't feel any need to draw parallels to our cultures. If I feel some element (cultural, linguistic, etc.) fits into my vision of Amarr, I happily borrow it and insert it into my RP, regardless if its Roman, Christian, Greek, Persian or something else entirely. No need to keep any kind of historical RL accuracy for such things imo.

A lot of players (yourself included Seri) seem to have a lot of fun making parallels and trying to use those parallels to fill in blanks in the EVE lore.

[Shae Tiann]

I'm with Merdaneth on this. People tend to over-think things like this.

[orange]

I'm with Merdaneth on this. People tend to over-think things like this.

Yep.

[Julianus Soter]

Hence how the whole 'I invented the one true language for culture x' rubs me the wrong way.

[Andreus Ixiris]

It seems to me that the random name generators are mostly by race, not by bloodline (in fact, were it not for the fact that I only see Intaki with the randomly generated name "en So-And-So" I would have assumed they were race-based).

[Louella Dougans]

someone has lists of the random surnames, and they seem bloodline based. Maybe seriphyn has them.

[Shae Tiann]

The surname lists were created more recently than the location/agent name lists; they're a development on the older material. They do go by bloodline rather than by faction; the agent names aren't as lucky.

[Hong WeiLoh]

Exactly. Besides, I've seen the ILF using some names/titles that are direct translations of Sanskrit. Suresha, for example. "Lord of the Gods" in Sanskrit (google's my pal--I don't speak Sanskrit lol) ... if you're looking for a language to lend legitimacy and "ancient" flavor to your RP, you can't beat one that's dead even NOW. 
I just found it a lil ironic to see that sort of reference, but when referencing something else in a local chat once, that would likewise be "ancient terran", I got a "huh? I don't understand that..."
I guess my main issue is if it's good for the goose, it's good for the duck, too. Maybe even the swan. If you can pick up something from RL history and use it, why can't I?
(note that IC Hong tends to quote all sorts of RL things (though ancient by modern RL standards too, aka the Tao Te Ching, Bible, old philosophical sayings, etc), but doesn't know their provenance or recognize their "historical" import)

[Bong-cha Jones]

I think it's important to note that the use of real-life languages in Eve rp is generally symbolic, not literal.  Which is to say, the Gallente do not speak French.  Even when roleplayers use French titles or greetings.  It's just a method of branding that draws from the background of the faction.  By that,  I mean Sanskrit is not an artifact in the world of Eve being referenced by the ILF, it is instead a real-world artifact used in a metaphorical application to portray a culture in a certain way.

[Hong WeiLoh]

I guess what I'm getting at is: why not just make something up? I mean, come on, they made an entire Klingon language up from thin air. I could call myself a Sunrie (a completely fictional term w/ no real-world connection/connotation that one of my best buds from childhood came up with for an old free-form RP chat ages ago)...  but would invariably be told "ucantdothat!" or some such term expressing RL-butthurtness.
Personally, it makes sense to me that there would be phonemes resembling ancient earth languages, etc, given that New Eden IS an offshoot of ancient Terra. That being said, though, at the risk of more RL-butthurt: obvious copy-paste is obvious.
However, to my thinking, that's CCP's fault for starting the "obvious copy-paste" trend. How can people not be expected to follow in-line with that? Sometimes CCP's obvious lack of thought with regard to their own "story" irritates the living hell out of me. 

I've been doing some poking around the forums a bit, and from the "outsider perspective", it seems that while CCP has done an absolutely terribad job of providing much in the way of backstory and "Prime Fiction", and the RP community has been working hard at trying to fill in the gaping craters in same, it still has to be remembered that anything written by any of us is still "player" fiction, not CCP's "canon story". What do you do if CCP comes out and releases something "Prime Fiction" that directly contradicts someone's established RP story? How do you reconcile that?

[Matariki Rain]

I've been doing some poking around the forums a bit, and from the "outsider perspective", it seems that while CCP has done an absolutely terribad job of providing much in the way of backstory and "Prime Fiction", and the RP community has been working hard at trying to fill in the gaping craters in same, it still has to be remembered that anything written by any of us is still "player" fiction, not CCP's "canon story". What do you do if CCP comes out and releases something "Prime Fiction" that directly contradicts someone's established RP story? How do you reconcile that?

That's one of the challenges for roleplay in the EVE world.

In general, we avoid making things up about the things that are part of the shared world that CCP can alter with a keystroke, or if we do they're things that are "rumoured" or "widely believed" rather than "this is the way it is". We play a lot with local portions of the world: "in my clan we do it like this", "on my planet...", "my people forbid the eating of broccoli".

Sometimes we consider that other players are mistaken or mad, because they insist things that don't appear to be reconcilable with the shared world. (this can cause misunderstanding and heartache.) Podder psychosis is a recognised phenomenon.

Sometimes we just don't play in certain parts of the story pool, or refuse to acknowledge some portions of canon. I know players who don't recognise certain sources. Again, it can cause problems when they encounter other players who embrace those portions wholeheartedly.

And sometimes we have to retcon or work around things.

[Bong-cha Jones]

It's supposed to be obvious    If it wasn't, it wouldn't be useful as a shorthand for the feel of a faction or group.  There will definitely be phonemes shared by both, of course, due to the mechanics of the human mouth and throat.  Not sure why you feel you couldn't use 'Sunrie' as a term.  People have certainly made up terms before.

As for the rest, eh.  Player fiction and later contradictions are an old chestnut.  I personally tend to be wary of filling out big important concepts and pieces of the setting.  Other people differ, and I presume they either have plans for later reconciliation or don't think they will be contradicted.

[Andreus Ixiris]

Could I politely request that you not write in blue? It's really not easy on the eyes.

Something I've always accepted about roleplaying in EVE is the occasional word or phrase that probably doesn't literally exist in the EVE universe - I always use the example "Stockholm Syndrome". Now, Stockholm is a place likely forgotten for many, many millenia, but the condition itself - the tendency of those habitually abused to eventually begin to identify and sympathy with their abuser - most certainly does exist in the EVE universe, the Ammatar (in this case I use that as a collective term to refer to any Minmatar voluntarily colluding with the Amarr, not just the Nefantar) are a prime example. So sometimes I'll use the phrase "Stockholm syndrome", and the smart roleplayers will know not to say "Gollum, gollum, what's a Stockholm, precious" because they know my character didn't actually say "Stockholm" - he said the name of some other place famous for producing an example of the condition and they have a good enough imagination to replace it in their heads. The thing is, if I actually said such a name, people might not know what I was talking about - the use of "Stockholm", however, makes it unambiguous.

This is why I'm perfectly fine with Amarrians speaking Latin - OK, in-world, it might not actually be Latin, but Latin is an instantly-recognisable stand-in for an old, increasingly obselete language used only out of tradition. When you use Latin, people instantly get the connotations, and I'm mature enough to imagine that they're actually speaking Old High Amarrian or whatever and not quibble about it.