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[Julianus Soter]

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=01-12-11

Blocks.

[Ghost Hunter]

Gister continued, "And speaking of alliances, I've heard that those ragtag things will now be allowed to join the empire wars en masse. Which is wonderful! That's all they're good for, fighting and war. Best to put their focus on something like that, and not have them getting in the way of people trying to do proper business."

oh really now

[Morwen Lagann]

The new goods-sorting program for Customs Offices in Crucible.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Ew, ew, ew, ew. I'm sorry, but once you let even the smallest alliances into FW, you open up the mechanics to all kinds of exploitation and generally make life quite uncomfortable for the people who actually care about it.

[BloodBird]

Ew, ew, ew, ew. I'm sorry, but once you let even the smallest alliances into FW, you open up the mechanics to all kinds of exploitation and generally make life quite uncomfortable for the people who actually care about it.

I agree. This is one thing that CCP should never listen to the masses for. I'd love the idea of alliances in FW (EM, UK, CVA, I-RED and so on...) but let's be realistic here - entities like PL and Goons will be lining up to join x faction or other, and that will frankly crash FW, badly.

[Arkady Sadik]

"Even" EM, U'K or CVA joining a militia will drastically change the war zone. FW is nice because a dozen players can change the situation drastically. Alliances will change that, a lot.

I don't like the idea at all.

[Myyona]

I think I could accept alliances joining FW if it could be traded with prohibiting super capitals from interfering with warfare in low sec.

[Arkady Sadik]

I think I could accept alliances joining FW if it could be traded with prohibiting super capitals from interfering with warfare in low sec.

Why? Is dropping 20 carriers much better?


Regarding the rest of the chronicle, I'm quite confused. Apparently, InterBus is not happy with their COs being shot down, but they do not lower standings when you do. What gives? (We're having a lovely IC discussion on whether shooting InterBus COs is beneficial for the Republic, whether it's piracy, whether set others red for it, whether we do it ourselves ... :-D)

[Myyona]

Regarding player owned custom offices; I have already made my stance clear on the the eve-o forums and I feel the time for discussion has long passed. I am still of the opinion that POCOs is going to turn out as a poor feature, but I will have to wait 3-4 months before giving the final verdict.

I do not like that CCP needs to strongly manipulate the market to make POCOs a viable game mechanic and I am not impressed with their attempt to sugar coat it further with a chronicle.

[Jade Constantine]

I have to disagree with the thought that Alliances in FW will be "bad". Sure it will increase the pressure on those who currently make very good incomes from the relatively poorly utilized facilties etc - but the influx of new players possible will more than make up for the disadvantage in providing genuine dynamism and activity in space. FW has been slowly dying for years now and numbers dropping and it never sat well we me that some good RP alliances were blocked from involvement by a bad choice made from the poor judgement to consider FW a new player (pvp) experience - which it is clearly not limited too.

As to the implications - genuine huge 0.0 powerhouse alliances will probably not be interested due to losing free access to half of empire space and allowing their enemies the option of simply joining the other side for perma free wardecs.

The people who will be interested will be alliances looking for new opportunities outside of 0.0 space and roleplaying alliances who never should have been barred in the first place.

I have to see it as an entirely good thing.

[Arkady Sadik]

Sure it will increase the pressure on those who currently make very good incomes from the relatively poorly utilized facilties etc

My worry has nothing to do with income. It's purely about effect. Right now, a 10-20 man corp can have a pretty big impact on any FW side. Alliances will have a huge impact when they join, and it will be much more difficult in the future for smaller corps to have an impact if they don't join one of the alliances.

It's not an on/off switch, and I don't think FW will die because of it, but it'll be a major change in the landscape, and I don't think it'll be for the better.

FW has been slowly dying for years now and numbers dropping

Which numbers are dropping?

Comparing 1st of December numbers for the last years gives me

2009: Minmatar 4352, Amarr 3418
2010: Minmatar 4711, Amarr 3902
2011: Minmatar 5322, Amarr 4541

I'm not sure that's all inactive alts, really.

[Jade Constantine]

Perhaps thats and increase in people just farming loyalty points quietly?

My friends in the FW scene tell me its very quiet and increasingly difficult to get fights and the roleplay / dynamism of the thing seems to have gone.

Part of that I lay at the feet of the way FW from day one was artifically separated from the significant rp alliances.

[Arkady Sadik]

84d running average of kills (per day) for the 1st of december:

2009-12-01: Minmatar 127, Amarr 120
2010-12-01: Minmatar 85, Amarr 103
2011-12-01: Minmatar 55, Amarr 60

Looks like it. Hm.

06-01: 86 + 100 / 96 + 124 / 86 + 90

Not all that bad.

04-01: 88 + 105 / 100 + 104 / 108 + 99

Looks pretty stable. Hm. Not sure what to make of that.

I mean, if they allow alliances in, we will join. Not a lot of discussion there. But I don't think it'll be good for FW as a whole. Doesn't mean that FW currently is *healthy* (and no, I don't think that the current "five hour occupancy" is helpful, either %)).

[Desiderya]

Maybe be either a part of FW or hold 0.0 sov?
Preferably with some possibilities to do some small-scale development of lowsec space for the empires.

[Jade Constantine]

84d running average of kills (per day) for the 1st of december:

2009-12-01: Minmatar 127, Amarr 120
2010-12-01: Minmatar 85, Amarr 103
2011-12-01: Minmatar 55, Amarr 60

Looks like it. Hm.

06-01: 86 + 100 / 96 + 124 / 86 + 90

Not all that bad.

04-01: 88 + 105 / 100 + 104 / 108 + 99

Looks pretty stable. Hm. Not sure what to make of that.

I mean, if they allow alliances in, we will join. Not a lot of discussion there. But I don't think it'll be good for FW as a whole. Doesn't mean that FW currently is *healthy* (and no, I don't think that the current "five hour occupancy" is helpful, either %)).

Well, I think it will be very good for FW and eve roleplay as a whole to see EM and Ushra'khan CVA and other rp alliances in the fight. And with the numbers and activity on an upward path it'll be even easier to lean on CCP to get the fixes and improvements needed to make FW all it can be.

It is a lot more difficult to interest the developers in improving a niche function that is walled off from a lot of subscribers. (which is what FW barred to Alliances is)

@ Desiderya below ... I could see that FW membership might fairly be said to be a choice between sov and fW perhaps from a balance perspective but it would be pretty harsh on CVA. On balance I'd say no, let the fact that FW membership rules out 50% of hisec to your memberbase to be the main issue. Perhaps look at some standings requirement that meant RP alliances would have an easier time qualifying than typical alliances that run all flavours of agents.