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[Seriphyn]

Posted this thread just an hour ago. As expected, the initial replies were "wut".

This goes back to what I've mentioned months ago but not basing characterization around faction. There have been many occurences in my time RPing that Seriphyn should join the Guristas or Angel Cartel, but from how I've characterized him, it makes little sense. It makes as much sense as going "The UK government is corrupt, join the Taliban!". Germany may have a superior economy to the UK, but I'm British, not German, so why would I join the German military? From an ethnocentric perspective, if the Gallente Federation was the only human race in EVE, and the rest were aliens, then no one (incl. Seri) would need to question why he was fighting for the Federation. It appears completely natural.

I think it may stem to the fact that, as players, we have a metaknowledge of all four factions, their flaws, their redeeming factors, and so forth. That makes it fair easier to jump ship, and whatnot.

[BloodBird]

That, and boredom that leads to 'fuck fixing this ship - let's leave for the next one and swear to sink it instead!'

Fucking predictable, boring and by now, horribly clichè.

Also, the responces to that tread so far... weak. I wonder, did the toons not get it, or did the players not get it?

[Esna Pitoojee]

This is pretty much why Esna's still backing the Empire, and why he'll most likely never join a specifically Republic-loyal or pirate-loyal group. People somewhere in the middle? Sure, no problem - but it'd take quite a bit for him to defect to an organization whose goals directly conflict with the continuing well-being and safety of the people he is protecting currently. Sadly, the vast majority of NPC factions (and many player ones) fit this description.

[Valdezi]

I understand what you're saying here. I didn't understand that thread because it seemed out of context.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Posted this thread just an hour ago. As expected, the initial replies were "wut".

This goes back to what I've mentioned months ago but not basing characterization around faction. There have been many occurences in my time RPing that Seriphyn should join the Guristas or Angel Cartel, but from how I've characterized him, it makes little sense. It makes as much sense as going "The UK government is corrupt, join the Taliban!". Germany may have a superior economy to the UK, but I'm British, not German, so why would I join the German military? From an ethnocentric perspective, if the Gallente Federation was the only human race in EVE, and the rest were aliens, then no one (incl. Seri) would need to question why he was fighting for the Federation. It appears completely natural.

I think it may stem to the fact that, as players, we have a metaknowledge of all four factions, their flaws, their redeeming factors, and so forth. That makes it fair easier to jump ship, and whatnot.

The overarching issue as I see it is that while there are some aspects of cultures that are considered alien to each other, the most obvious ones that really identify them are largely unrecognized. As an Westerner, I could fly over to the Middle East, and suddenly find myself in a nearly foreign culture with very little in common to my own, but what is the first thing that separates us? Language. Styles of dress, religion, courting behavior, personal outlook; none of this is largely visible between capsuleers and we are largely forced to input our own interpretation. And while this may be the fault of CCP or its playerbase for not putting enough thought into this, text is sometimes a limiting factor in distinguishing these things.

Another point to consider is that Capsuleers are a culture unto their own, with their own customs, laws, moral boundaries, and styles of behavior that depart from their places of origin. We even share a language (mostly!). We see this in our own society with the extremely wealthy, who are often deemed eccentric for their interests and odd belief system. There is a whole different mindset for elites that amass wealth greater than the GDP of entire solar systems, so it stands to reason that when freed from the constraints of their past lives perspective on the world around them changes. Imagine being a powerful freelance mercenary who was in demand by every country in the world to fight proxy wars and do the dirty jobs that the formal military are unable to do due to political considerations, and you made billions of <insert your currency here> in the process, and earned the respect and consideration of these factions. Sure, there might be some people that are indebted to their home country, but many people, for the right price and motivation, will do just about anything to anyone. Everyone has a price.

[Bacchanalian]

So everyone is supposed to wave the flag of their own nation simply because they were born there?  That's an incredibly silly notion.

[Katrina Oniseki]

So everyone is supposed to wave the flag of their own nation simply because they were born there?  That's an incredibly silly notion.

I don't think he means everyone should do it.

[BloodBird]

So everyone is supposed to wave the flag of their own nation simply because they were born there?  That's an incredibly silly notion.

No. But when the most common result of most people's 'employment' in their nations is a flaming defection/betrayal for the sake of ego/drama/whatever the end result is that the most un-common choice is made by the ones who remain loyal for years on end and never defect/betray, and the idea of a 'loyalist' capsuleer becomes the less-respectable option simply because it's less common. Few non-Amarrians seem to respect Blake, for instance, but plenty of pirates/defecters/traitors/freelancers/etc respect each other highly. Besides all these we have the ones who made the more... 'natural' choice; they stopped directly supporting their empire, but did not go out of their way to hinder it, either. Or opt for piracy.

You don't have to be a flag-waving national to feel a sense of 'belonging' anywhere, as Seriphyn meant - a 'loyalist' is merely one that focuses on the betterment/service to/defence of their chosen nation - anyone else who feel they 'belong' don't have to actively help to do so, so long as they don't work to hinder/hurt/destroy said nation.

[Jade Constantine]

See I do occassionally feel some kinship (as Jade) for some Gallentean cultural ideals. Freedom of speech, cosmopolitan outlook, political activism, libertarian economic aspirations etc.

But I get disappointed that most Gallentean Nationalist Roleplayers seem (in my opinion) to be playing indentikit State Fascists. (Amarrian extremists or Caldari jackboots with Gallente flags draped over their extremism basically).

I've been much happier with the Intaki roleplayers over all, who I perceive do bring more actual difference to their portrayal of nationalism according to their factional choice.

Sometimes I have even said IC that to Jade's perception most Nationalists are the same and issue the same kind of argumentative dogma and core set of beliefs in roleplay that means in essence the nationalist "game" is no more differentiated than "red vs blue".

For example. Look at a core Gallentean Nationalist outfit at the moment... Serephim, Soter, Ixirus - all the rhetoric coming out seems to be "X nation is the mother and father, obey the Senate!" and I can't really see how that differs from the pro Heth people in the Caldari State or even the Pro Sarum people in the Amarrian Faction.

(Referencing particularly the anti intaki, anti syndicate, anti this that threads from these directions in last few months).

I guess I'm saying nationalism would be easier to love it wasn't always the extremist nationalism of the provosts and black eagles jack-booting around new eden only differentiated by their uniform lapels.
 

[Senn Typhos]

But I get disappointed that most Gallentean Nationalist Roleplayers seem (in my opinion) to be playing indentikit State Fascists. (Amarrian extremists or Caldari jackboots with Gallente flags draped over their extremism basically).

Wulp, hate to pour gasoline on a bonfire, but, they really aren't that different in terms of nationality.

I mean at one point they were cooperative. The only difference is, to channel a little philosophy from the 19th century, the post-war Federation focused on being the "free society" while the post-war Caldari focused on being the "Hegelian state." Arguably, they're equally zealous about who has the greater nation, the only true difference is that one valorizes individuality while the other valorizes nationalism.

[Matariki Rain]

Playing the norm for a culture can be a lot of fun. You get to develop context about what life's like when you' re part of a developed and rounded community, and if you play with others who also play the norms you get to share and re-use and worldbuild together.

It's also a somewhat satisfying reaction against special-snowflakery or not-another-cliche, since it seems to be relatively rare.

I'd love more 2nd-, 3rd- and 4th-generation freeborn Matari, by the way. Just living it and rocking it and doing the things people do while dealing with the issues people deal with.

[Matariki Rain]

See I do occassionally feel some kinship (as Jade) for some Gallentean cultural ideals. Freedom of speech, cosmopolitan outlook, political activism, libertarian economic aspirations etc.

Mata's stance IC is that anarchism is the logical extension of Gallente ideals of individualism.

But I get disappointed that most Gallentean Nationalist Roleplayers seem (in my opinion) to be playing indentikit State Fascists. (Amarrian extremists or Caldari jackboots with Gallente flags draped over their extremism basically).

Agreed. Which is why I'd like to see more of Gallente as I imagine them.

[Myyona]

I love portraying Jowen as a simpleminded Caldari practicalist. Nothing sensational about this guy.

Of course he is proud to be Caldari, but not really a nationalist. He often talk bad about the Gallente, but the sad truth is that he spends most of his time watching Gallente produced holoreels of questionable quality so his "hatred" is more a cover for an annoyance with his own lazy lifestyle. He is further obsessed with a Gallente woman living in the same station as him claiming she is out to steal his work or ruin his life. She likely is not, and again it is a cover because he actually find this woman attractive. That thought just do not fit well with his self image. What a big obvious hypocrite he is, just like a real person. I love it.

[Jade Constantine]

See I do occassionally feel some kinship (as Jade) for some Gallentean cultural ideals. Freedom of speech, cosmopolitan outlook, political activism, libertarian economic aspirations etc.

Mata's stance IC is that anarchism is the logical extension of Gallente ideals of individualism.

Some of my comrades would lynch me - but I don't really disagree

But I get disappointed that most Gallentean Nationalist Roleplayers seem (in my opinion) to be playing indentikit State Fascists. (Amarrian extremists or Caldari jackboots with Gallente flags draped over their extremism basically).

Agreed. Which is why I'd like to see more of Gallente as I imagine them.


Yep, thats exactly what I was talking about really. Thanks for the link.

[Seriphyn]

The overarching issue as I see it is that while there are some aspects of cultures that are considered alien to each other, the most obvious ones that really identify them are largely unrecognized. As an Westerner, I could fly over to the Middle East, and suddenly find myself in a nearly foreign culture with very little in common to my own, but what is the first thing that separates us? Language. Styles of dress, religion, courting behavior, personal outlook; none of this is largely visible between capsuleers and we are largely forced to input our own interpretation. And while this may be the fault of CCP or its playerbase for not putting enough thought into this, text is sometimes a limiting factor in distinguishing these things.

Another point to consider is that Capsuleers are a culture unto their own, with their own customs, laws, moral boundaries, and styles of behavior that depart from their places of origin. We even share a language (mostly!). We see this in our own society with the extremely wealthy, who are often deemed eccentric for their interests and odd belief system. There is a whole different mindset for elites that amass wealth greater than the GDP of entire solar systems, so it stands to reason that when freed from the constraints of their past lives perspective on the world around them changes. Imagine being a powerful freelance mercenary who was in demand by every country in the world to fight proxy wars and do the dirty jobs that the formal military are unable to do due to political considerations, and you made billions of <insert your currency here> in the process, and earned the respect and consideration of these factions. Sure, there might be some people that are indebted to their home country, but many people, for the right price and motivation, will do just about anything to anyone. Everyone has a price.

Quality point as always. I suppose it brings up the idea of "starship pilot or capsuleer"? Perhaps the capsule is just your work's hard hat. You slip into it to do your job, but you don't base your life around it. If Seriphyn sees himself as a pilot, and not a capsuleer, then his perspective might make sense.

Playing the norm for a culture can be a lot of fun. You get to develop context about what life's like when you' re part of a developed and rounded community, and if you play with others who also play the norms you get to share and re-use and worldbuild together.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes! I absolutely LOVE doing this, particularly integrating Gallente lifestyle technology into everyday, mundane tasks (drones to help make breakfast, a bunch of holo-billboards suddenly materializing over a forming traffic jam outside). With Minmatar, you might integrate a different cultural aspect into mundane living (maybe not technology). Unfortunately, Gallente RPers with this sort of focus are in high demand; not everyone has the same level of creative ability, and not everyone RPs for the same reasons, so...

On a side note, without too much digression, the purpose of Anette is to balance my roleplaying out as a member of the EVE RP community with the other side of the Gallente coin, with regards to arts, entertainment, pursuit of dreams, and so forth. Someone said to me last night that Anette is able to outclass 75% of those plugged into the Summit on an intellectual level while still believably acting like an 11-year old. However, not everyone has the patience for child-characters, as believable as they might be, or feel they have a place in the grimdark EVE universe. Otherwise, I would very much be interested in using her to explore the softer side of the Gallente. I could just go "fuck da pohlees" and do it anyway, if people would welcome that. The point is, is that even at 11, she wields the same sort of influence/wealth as a starting capsuleer (maybe), so it throws her into the same league of "society's elite" as capsuleers/pilots.

After all, the public sphere (emphasis on public) of Gallente society, across chrons and other PF, isn't exactly grimdark compared to other factions. Giant crystalline cities, pop stars with futuristic stageshows, domestic automation. So the presence of Anette isn't exactly violating anything.

And urgh, digression I might make a separate topic for her and related ideas.