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[Sakura Imoru]

(Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, nobody has to share it. I do not claim to post any facts/truths here and consider myself open-minded enough for a genuine discussion about this topic. But if you just want to troll about this issue please join one of the x threads on the official forums, thank you )

OK, I really need to let off some steam, but with the official forum having way to much trolls these days I think this forum is the better place to do so.

As the title might suggest it's about the current "discussion" about the future of WiS, but also about how people act about it, and especially the latter is annoying me these days.

I have no problem with the fact that CCP has returned to working on the FiS-part of EvE again, there surely are tons of issues that have waited for fixing long enough, although it does leave a bad taste in my mouth as once again CCP published some half-finished and buggy content just to abandon it like it is (and no, the 3 remaining quarters we get soon don't count as CCP even admitted they were ready anyhow). But that's not the thing that really annoys me.

What does annoy me is reading all those narrowminded trolls/bitter-vets who, although CCP have said it since the beginning, do not want to accept that EvE is supposed to be a "SciFi-simulator", not only an "I'm the ubar-l33t-PvP-champ, you n00b"-shootin'-stuff-game. Granted, PvP is the core element of FiS, there is no way to avoid it, even if you are a high-sec carebear... just enter the market .

But people need to understand that a "SciFi-simulator" is not only PvP. Hell, I don't know any SciFi-franchise, even the most dystopian one, where people only fly/walk around and kill everything in sight. Heros and villains alike need to rest, they talk, flirt, fall in love (or just have sex to release the pressure), argue, get a drink, start a bar brawl, spend the night in the brigg.....

Those guys run around claiming that EvE is just FiS, and WiS is a game on it's own, trying to invade EvE like a disease or a parasite. No, it isn't! WiS is just as much a part of EvE as FiS is. EvE = FiS + WiS! And no name-calling will change that (e.g. Space-Barbies).

I assume that in reality those guys are just afraid that instead of undocking and letting themselves get blown up needlessly if stationcamped a wartarget will just look around the station to have some fun in the local bar. But you know what? That wartarget would nowadays just log off. The result: The same, no killmail for the campers. So just HTFU and deal with it. WiS is here, it's going to stay and once The Door^TM opens it's going to be awesome.

Phew, getting that wall of text from my mind surely felt good

[Andreus Ixiris]

To be honest, in the end, I'm kind of upset that CCP caved into all the whining and shelved WiS.

[Hamish Grayson]

I don't think being able to walk around stations would really add anything to the ultimate scifi experience.    I'm hardly in the "Uber l33t" crowd and would in fact welcome additions to the game that would make in more immersive. 

I just don't see how it could add that much to the ultimate sci-fi experience.   It would take a whole lot of work and resources for very little pay out towards that goal, and in my opinion actually be less immersive than RP chat.   I feel that there are other things CCP could be doing besides WiS that would move the game farther toward the ultimate sci-fi experience for less cost in time, resources and money.

I respect CCP's ability to realize that the gain of WiS doesn't come close to equaling it's opportunity cost to other areas of the ultimate sci-fi experience.

[BloodBird]

To be honest, in the end, I'm kind of upset that CCP caved into all the whining and shelved WiS.

Thay did WHAT, now? If this is true this is about the most pathetic thing CCP has EVER done.

To the OP; I'm not entierly sure what your annoyed with, but it sounds like your pissed off with the 'eve is only a PVP game' crowd. If so, I'll agree with you on all points. I could go on for hours about how absurd and out-right moronic the idea is, that activeties that are not 100% PVP orineted are somehow not valid, but I'll spare us this hours long typing session in favor of; I agree. Absolutely.

[Sakura Imoru]

To be honest, in the end, I'm kind of upset that CCP caved into all the whining and shelved WiS.

Thay did WHAT, now? If this is true this is about the most pathetic thing CCP has EVER done.

To the OP; I'm not entierly sure what your annoyed with, but it sounds like your pissed off with the 'eve is only a PVP game' crowd. If so, I'll agree with you on all points. I could go on for hours about how absurd and out-right moronic the idea is, that activeties that are not 100% PVP orineted are somehow not valid, but I'll spare us this hours long typing session in favor of; I agree. Absolutely.

If your emphasis of the bolded part is on "only" then you understood me just right

[Borza]

I'm with Hamish.

Realistically I doubt CCP will ever get WiS to a stage of being significantly more immersive than chats. It'll be too clunky and lacking in features. If so it can only be a distraction from FiS - which mostly works.

Or maybe I'm just cynical.

[BloodBird]

I'm with Hamish.

Realistically I doubt CCP will ever get WiS to a stage of being significantly more immersive than chats. It'll be too clunky and lacking in features. If so it can only be a distraction from FiS - which mostly works.

Or maybe I'm just cynical.

Just as with Sakura, I agree on this point as well - but while walking in stations won't have the same impact, and it might take alot of work and time, it's still something that alot of people have wanted for a long time and frankly, skimping out on this for good would be a serious waste. If WiS really is on hiatus, I hope it's ONLY a hiatus and not an overtly long one - whatever one thinks of this, CCP has stated that they wanted it, and promised it to their players - ergo, they are commited and pretty much have to deliver.

Ofc, they did also promise a funtioning FW etc, so... /cynical.

[Senn Typhos]

Here's how the EVE works, in my experience.

Whatever we have, we don't like.
Whatever we're going to get, we don't like.
Once we have it, we're disappointed by it.
Once it's gone, we're mad we don't have it anymore.

[Desiderya]

I love the avatars. That was damn important, imho.

WiS is, well, nice. Would be nice to have more than the CQ, too. It is a big investment of resources for a rather small actual benefit. As much as a nice 3D enviroment helps with visualization, I'm automatically limited by it, too. Avatar appearance, too.

It is one thing to use imagination to create a mental image from scratch. Another thing is to use imagination to override something you see. Possible without a doubt, but really worth the massive amounts of resources needed?
Done it in every MMO I've played. In the end you'll sit or stand next to each other or in a circle, looking at the chat channel. Punching that idiot in the face? Yeah, you'll do that standing next to each other, watching idle animations of your chars.


They might be able to accomplish that some time down the road, and I'd really want to see it, but focusing on FiS is way more important for the game, since it is a game about internet spaceships.

[Gottii]

Here's how the EVE works, in my experience.

Whatever we have, we don't like.
Whatever we're going to get, we don't like.
Once we have it, we're disappointed by it.
Once it's gone, we're mad we don't have it anymore.

I dont like this post, I didnt like the idea of this post before it happened, Im disappointed in this post.....

                   (...but dont take it away, or I'll be mad, its trufax) 

[Kaleigh Doyle]

The big problem was Incarna was an incomplete project on such a massive scale that any hope they had of convincing people that this wasn't a bad idea was destroyed the moment they tried to push $60 monocles, force you to use the CQ that killed your hardware (no dual boxing for you), and introduced only one CQ with no option for player interaction. It fell flat on its face because they RUSHED the expansion out and had ZERO to show for it; no wonder there was such a backlash against it, and now it just solidified all the opinions of those who knew it was a bad idea.

[Louella Dougans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrtwESnTOwY

look how the character steps on the stairs in that.

now look at your character in the CQ.

now go 

it's not just it being a single-player room with few interactable objects. It's not just the clothing being a bit   in terms of style. it's not just the awkward posing where every female character is wearing heels and is doing the glamour model arched back pose that thrusts out the chest. It's not just the clipping issues with the outfits. It's not just the size of female characters chests being tweaked to suit the NeX item meshes.
Those things are disappointing, but are just superficially disappointing. lack of polish on a rough diamond sort of thing.

but seeing the videos of things like the physically simulated clothing, where the character is interacting with the environment, stepping on stairs instead of gliding over them, taking steps to turn around instead of just rotating, and then looking at what was delivered in Incarna, and it is hugely disappointing. to go with the rough diamond i mentioned before, looking at the things of what Incarna was promised as, and then looking at what was delivered, it is not a rough diamond, it's a rough piece of cut glass, not even a gemstone.

and that's quite a bit more disappointing.

and it's like, I'm not angry, i'm not upset, just disappointed.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I've heard more than one person suggest (and at this point, I'm inclined to believe them) that the reason CQ was shelved wasn't because people disliked Incarna, but that the CQ engine was in severe need of development/rewriting.

With only one player and their walk-in closet causing people's computers to do their best Chernobyl imitation, it wasn't reasonable to expect that CCP could just tack on the ability to interact with other players' avatars, walk in larger spaces, or any of the other things we've been demanding - at least not without finishing melting down those few of us who could safely run Incarna.

No, what they would have had to do is spend an enormous amount of time - I'd peg it at over six months, meaning Winter Expansion and quite possibly most of next Summer too - having their people pour over the Incarna engine and do everything they could to optimize it. Because the real Incarna people would be off developing the other CQs, establishments, etc. the real grind-work would have to be done by other EVE devs. This would mean less work being done on FiS stuff.

And frankly, the community wouldn't stand for another expansion with so little content. While I'm all for a balance between CQ/Incarna development and FiS development - and yes, I realise this will result in an extraordinarily low rate of work on Incarna-related stuff - I don't think I would stand for 1 1/2 more expansions just to give us the ability to sit down in a bar either.

[Senn Typhos]

Call me naive or overly optimistic but, I feel like if any good came of this whole mess, it was CCP realizing their mistake and learning from it. It seems like, gods willing, they're getting back to working on actual improvements.

Yes, nebulae are an aesthetic thing, but it's something that improves on an existing feature. Incarna's failed release, by comparison, was a needless aesthetic added to the game.

[Lyn Farel]

Needless for you.

I am with Sakura with this. I have been waiting for WiS since day one, and will always do for immersion purpose. If that does not add immersion to you, well, I can understand it, but it does for me. I have no problem with people telling that it is not something they want. After all, when they add new content that I am not really interested in, I do not complain. It is a good thing that keeps the game healthy. What I hate is retards that thinks that just because it does not interest them, then that new content is not needed. I have been very patient with that kind of morons for more than a year now, and CCP eventually screw it up so bad that it made them feel that they were right to complain about it, and this disgusts me.