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Author Topic: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)  (Read 25415 times)

BloodBird

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #30 on: 29 Oct 2011, 03:08 »

Well, that was a joking statement on my part, but I suppose if we want to turn it into a srsbzns debate, we can do that too.

I did not see anything in your original statement that indicated it was meant as a joke, nor did it feel that way, so it seemed to me you went all defensive and serious about it, but that's fine.

1). There are no protagonists in 40k. No matter what anyone says, anywhere.

I am aware of this; Warhammer in general, 40k and fantasy, has no real 'protagonists' – they do however have named/well-known characters. These take 'lead' roles in games and other media like books about the warhammer universe. You see this all the time, and in 40k games, odds are if SM's are in the game, it will be from their 'perspective' and their named dudes will be 'leads' most the time. I was thinking of games with the statement above.

2). User friendly does not suggest inherent value, tactically or otherwise. If you play vanilla Space Marines, you're actually putting yourself at a disadvantage in many situations. I don't think I need to provide anecdotes, but for the sake of argument, if you didn't anticipate a lot of high-strength fire and brought your marines in the typical "two tacs in rhinos" loadout, you're gonna burn.

Ofc you will. Bad tactics and bad decisions will fuck you over, this is well known. My main reason to think of SM's as 'user-friendly' is, if you have for instance a Tau or Eldar or Dark Eldar force, these are factions with very specialized units. All of them have specific uses and usually don't do other things well, at all. Tau fire-warriors for instance, are excellent long-range but will evaporate if a headless toddler attacks them in melee – a SM tactical unit (last I looked atl, I'll admit it's a while ago now) can hold it's own in either of those, if they need to. I'm far more fond of forces where you HAVE to orchestrate all your forces perfectly to counter enemies with their strong points and avoid getting them tied up in situations where they will lose badly. SM's are far more forgiving on any slip-ups in this regard, and to me having a force where you must know exactly what your doing is far more rewarding to play.

3). There is no such thing as a perfect army. Ergo, even the vanilla SM player has to take at least an iota of strategic thought into account if he wants to make a useful army.

Yes, he does. Answer to point two answers this.

4). A manicured army doesn't ensure success. A vanilla SM player running into battle head-long against a DE army, or going toe-to-toe with an Ork hoard, has fucked up his tactics and will lose to a superior strategist. In fact, ALL armies will be rolled by a superior strategist in most circumstances, barring variables attributable to random luck or other unknowns.

Again, point 2. However it seems you have the impression that I said that SM's are entirely able to beat all others no matter what; I can't recall aiming to say something this dumb, because it's not true. Your statements here is mostly self-evident truth.

5). Just because you don't like the lore behind Space Marines, doesn't discredit it. I think Eldar are a ridiculous combination of overplayed elven aloofness and technobabble, doesn't mean someone else doesn't see value in it. Or as you put it, "we're entitled to our opinions."

I've no problem with the lore behind SM's, for the most part. I actually like Space Wolves for their awesome Viking/Werewolf tendencies – same reason I really, really don't like the silly vampire-like Blood Angels – and Ultramarines are somewhat cute. This is another conversation entirely however and these two chapters don't 'redeem' how horribly over-hyped and super-glorified SM's are in a general sense. For this reason, if I'd have to roll an Imperium-loyal force it will likely be SOB or IG. I'm not sure, to be entirely honest, why I like SOB more than IG – they have many similarities to SM's while IG are very different and far more heroic, again.

And before that, there are no less than 2 other factions ahead of them in the option's list, 5 if we include Warhammer fantasy.
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Silver Night

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #31 on: 29 Oct 2011, 13:05 »

[mod]Please avoid flame bait and derailing the thread. Also please remember that responding to off-topic or flame-bait posts only exacerbates the problem. If you don't have something useful to contribute, just don't post - it's that simple.[/mod]

hellgremlin

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #32 on: 29 Oct 2011, 17:00 »

The last time I played Warty Forty the marines where still in Womble armour and the Squats where still around. I was, in fact, putting together a squat army. These days my interaction with Warhampster is mainly via playing in a Dark Heresy campaign.

More recently I get my tabletop wargames fix in other ways, mainly via Full Thrust. However, I've recently picked up a unit of the 95th rifles from Flintloque
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
These images are of a slightly different regiment, but you get the idea.

Why am I reminded of the Star Trek episode where Q gives Riker superpowers?
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Graelyn

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #33 on: 30 Oct 2011, 08:07 »

That shit was creepy!
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #34 on: 31 Oct 2011, 17:40 »

That shit was creepy!

Which shit? Mine or the Trek shit?

And I take your point about the resemblance Hellgremlin.

The actual Flintloque game background takes national stereotypes and turns them up to 11. It is also very funny.
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hellgremlin

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #35 on: 25 Jan 2012, 16:33 »

Ooh, I haven't spammed these here yet:



10! 10 Chaos Terminators, ah, ah, ah!
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Shaalira

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #36 on: 25 Jan 2012, 16:50 »

There are good guys in 40k?

Apparently, I'm terribly misinformed.

When the Tau came out, they had the vibe of a young, progressive and idealistic new civilization that was open to getting along well with aliens.

People complained that it didn't really fit the GRIMDARK.

So, now the Tau have an undercurrent of mind control and cultural domination.
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Gottii

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #37 on: 25 Jan 2012, 17:05 »

There are good guys in 40k?

Apparently, I'm terribly misinformed.

When the Tau came out, they had the vibe of a young, progressive and idealistic new civilization that was open to getting along well with aliens.

People complained that it didn't really fit the GRIMDARK.


So, now the Tau have an undercurrent of mind control and cultural domination.

Love the Tau.  Great addition to the universe.  I mean, how does it get more grimdark than shoving a chainsword into the gut of an alien talking about wanting everyone to just get along?
« Last Edit: 25 Jan 2012, 22:23 by Gottii »
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Shaalira

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #38 on: 25 Jan 2012, 17:24 »

Love the Tau.  Great addition to the universe.  I mean, how does it get more grimdark than shoving a chainsword into the gut of an alien talking about wanting everyone to just get along?

That was my thought as well.  Having a spunky new civilization of idealists in a grimdark universe doesn't make that universe any less grimdark.  They're the foil which emphasizes the xenophobic, uncompromising nature of the majority of the galaxy.  In the end, they're just as tasty to the tyranids as the rest.
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Graelyn

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #39 on: 26 Jan 2012, 22:35 »

That shit was creepy!

Which shit? Mine or the Trek shit?

Those weird ass things on that Trek episode.

They bayonetted Worf! He really needed to level up.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #40 on: 28 Jan 2012, 08:46 »

It was the first TNG episode, he was a complete noob.
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Caellach Marellus

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #41 on: 29 Jan 2012, 03:20 »

There are good guys in 40k?

Apparently, I'm terribly misinformed.

When the Tau came out, they had the vibe of a young, progressive and idealistic new civilization that was open to getting along well with aliens.

People complained that it didn't really fit the GRIMDARK.

So, now the Tau have an undercurrent of mind control and cultural domination.

The Tau were always grimdark, but they just were subtle with it. The first Codex already had the Damocles expansion and O'Shovah's rebellion against the Ethereal caste. Also the fact that any human (or other alien) colonies they accepted into the fold suddenly found themselves very sterile. They were offering the peace candy with one hand, then forcing their extinction with the other by denying them future generations.

The Tau are awesome.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #42 on: 29 Jan 2012, 07:19 »

Confirming Tau = awesomesauce.
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Mizhara

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #43 on: 29 Jan 2012, 07:27 »

Only if you disregard the existence of Fire Warrior. That game's existence has completely ruined ALL Tau... forever... for all time.
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Caellach Marellus

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Re: WARHAMMURZ! (table breakage possible)
« Reply #44 on: 29 Jan 2012, 07:45 »

Only if you disregard the existence of Fire Warrior. That game's existence has completely ruined ALL Tau... forever... for all time.

I liked Fire Warrior.

It gave us the railrifle unit.
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