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[Merdaneth]

*cough*

Split the thread or somethin'...

Me agrees with Graelyn and slaps people discussing Statist stuff and other things...

[Julianus Soter]

If, for example, someone was roleplaying the formation of an industrial corporation to help rebuild the Seyllin system, and made a call for investors to do so, then you'd get 2 offers for genuine support and about eight to declare their intentions to destroy it.

and how many of those 10 responses then go on to actually do anything about it? Anything at all? 

From my observations over the years, one in ten. So, out of every hundred such replies, you might see 2 actual acts of support, and 8 acts of spaceship violence.

This begs the question, is posting on the IGS actually roleplay? Can it be possible for a given character to continually promise to do something, and then not do it, and maintain any shred of credibility as a human being or infomorph/capsuleer?

If we judged the credibility of IGS posters on a statistical level, 90% of them would be the laughing stock of the intergalactic community, in character. Attempting to navigate such a jungle is, needless to say, more trouble than its worth.

[Louella Dougans]

Also:

approaching soon is the DUST:514 novel, "Templar One", which is arriving within the next 3 months iirc.

There will be things to have arguments about, RP wise, such as the minmatar executing surrendered enemy forces, and the moustache-twirly evil caricatures of other persons.

of course, then there's That Argument Again, about how much any of all that would be known outside of the persons directly concerned.

Schrodinger's PF. 


Anyway, with not much in the way of new information in missions or whatever, that is easily found (New missions are spread thinly, since, if there's 100 existing missions with PF snippets in it, then adding 10 more means the chances of encountering those missions isn't particularly high, compared with ones you've already seen), and no news or chronicles, then there's not much to talk about.

Even with FW, if there's a falloff in numbers contesting plexes and systems, then there's less to talk about there. Same with incursions, it has become a weather report rather than a particular thing to discuss. "forecast for today, heavy Sansha's with sunny intervals" and so on.

the inability to see what other persons are wearing for example, also means Incarna is a bit vOv so far. E.g. SHOES!

Shoes can ONLY be seen by the player of the character wearing the shoes. it's a bit all dressed up and nowhere to go, which is

you can /emote wears fabulous shoes from the NeX store, at the handful of social functions that are going on, but it's a bit Meh at the moment.

Not to mention, the whole debacle with the monocles, 18 months, Walking in Cupboards, and so on, which has had the effect of making several persons think "Do I see myself still playing this game next year?" which then has a follow on effect, of "Do I want to start a thing with these other characters, with the possibility that at least some of us will unsubscribe before a Conclusion is reached?", so there's less long-term RP commitments.

Some people are currently reviewing where the exit is, and checking their parachute harness, it makes other people less willing to commit, I think.

Overall, meh.

Needs something to make people go "Wow!!!" and then everything will pick up again.

[Merdaneth]

If, for example, someone was roleplaying the formation of an industrial corporation to help rebuild the Seyllin system, and made a call for investors to do so, then you'd get 2 offers for genuine support and about eight to declare their intentions to destroy it.

and how many of those 10 responses then go on to actually do anything about it? Anything at all? 

And what can be actually done to rebuild it? Nothing. You can makebelieve you are rebuilding the system, but since you are trying to aid an NPC element, and NPCs in EVE are largely non-existent and non-responsive in anything but our imagination, there isn't much you can actually see being done. So, in many cames the declaration to aid *is* the aid, because actual aid cannot be proven or disproven.

[Julianus Soter]

If, for example, someone was roleplaying the formation of an industrial corporation to help rebuild the Seyllin system, and made a call for investors to do so, then you'd get 2 offers for genuine support and about eight to declare their intentions to destroy it.

and how many of those 10 responses then go on to actually do anything about it? Anything at all? 

And what can be actually done to rebuild it? Nothing. You can makebelieve you are rebuilding the system, but since you are trying to aid an NPC element, and NPCs in EVE are largely non-existent and non-responsive in anything but our imagination, there isn't much you can actually see being done. So, in many cames the declaration to aid *is* the aid, because actual aid cannot be proven or disproven.

Incorrect, I believe. Rebuilding a system, in general, can be done through establishing planetary economic activity to provide a substitute economic base to what was lost on Seyllin Prime, thus providing a place for the system's economic potential to the local astropolitical entity, in this case, the Federation, to be renewed. Planetary interaction, in other words.

If the use this more generalized objective, reestablishing economic potential to the Federation, then our opportunities are even more abundant. Capsuleer industrial activity, including starship manufacturing, ore processing, trade and commerce, are all valid ways to implement such a policy. As is limiting pirate activity through destroying cosmic anomalies/deadspaces, belt rats, that would otherwise hamper civilian non-capsuleer commercial traffic.

Running missions for the agents located within the system is also applicable.

To argue otherwise would be to invalidate the roleplay done by Ishuk-Raata and Intaki Liberation Front, who have done things similar in the Intaki system, and set significant precedent. The only debatable aspect is precisely how much economic activity might be stimulated.

[Victoria Stecker]

And what can be actually done to rebuild it? Nothing. You can makebelieve you are rebuilding the system, but since you are trying to aid an NPC element, and NPCs in EVE are largely non-existent and non-responsive in anything but our imagination, there isn't much you can actually see being done. So, in many cames the declaration to aid *is* the aid, because actual aid cannot be proven or disproven.

I was actually thinking about this while bored at work for the last 30 mintues or so. If I were going to make such a claim, what would I do?  Came up with a few ideas:

Putting people to work: Move heavy industrial production to the system. See how full you and your corp can keep all of the production queues. From our view it seems like we work in a vacuum, but you've gotta figure that when I start a production job, someone is working on it in some capacity. Even if we try to say that it's all automated, then I've just given the maintenance crew a bit more work to do.

In a similar vein, put the stuff on the market there, try to attract more attention, draw people there. Is it going to have any real, in-game impact on the state of the system? Probably not. But CCP does once in a while notice what players have done, and a concerted, long term, public effort to promote industry and commerce might get their attention.

Or, you know, it might not do a damned thing. *shrug*

edit: sniped by soter

[Julianus Soter]

I think we can see the beginnings of another argument in the same vein, here: "no roleplay-by-doing is realizeable in this setting, and thus, roleplay-by-doing and roleplay-by-saying are equivalent and can be substituted for one another"

I believe this statement is patently false. We exist and do things in the in-character universe on a second by second basis, providing us with hard fact and evidence to support our character development. The danger of roleplaying purely by saying things, as exists on the IGS for the vast majority of cases, is that you remove many of the barriers stopping metagaming and manipulating character development, namely, by removing observable fact from the equation and reducing it to a 'on-your-honor' system.

Which, as we all know, fails miserably in such a context. Hell, it happens when doing table-tops, so how is it going to work on the internet, of all places?

Relating this to the OP, I believe many of the issues with the present publicly-observable roleplaying activity is that people are seeing this for themselves, and don't want anything to do with it. They've grown bored of the old, rehashed tropes.

Eventually, the reason why people pay for their subscriptions to CCP is because they purchase the privileged to fly spaceships in space. A chat client, or a chat room, is an infinitely reproduceable and free technology, through which all manner of text-based roleplay can be conducted. However, what we have in eve online is a infinitely-varied and deep history of observable player action relating to observable outcomes. Eve online market, corporation, and pvp game mechanics are the D20 ruleset that keep everything humming along, and the charred remains of titans and supercarriers, corporate thefts, and ponzi schemes, are the collective memories of the player base that can never be undone by a retcon.

[Bastian Valoron]

Incorrect, I believe. Rebuilding a system, in general, can be done through establishing planetary economic activity to provide a substitute economic base to what was lost on Seyllin Prime, thus providing a place for the system's economic potential to the local astropolitical entity, in this case, the Federation, to be renewed. Planetary interaction, in other words.

If the use this more generalized objective, reestablishing economic potential to the Federation, then our opportunities are even more abundant. Capsuleer industrial activity, including starship manufacturing, ore processing, trade and commerce, are all valid ways to implement such a policy. As is limiting pirate activity through destroying cosmic anomalies/deadspaces, belt rats, that would otherwise hamper civilian non-capsuleer commercial traffic.

Running missions for the agents located within the system is also applicable.

To argue otherwise would be to invalidate the roleplay done by Ishuk-Raata and Intaki Liberation Front, who have done things similar in the Intaki system, and set significant precedent. The only debatable aspect is precisely how much economic activity might be stimulated.

I guess the problem here is that most of it is solo play and no one really cares if you just produce stuff and sell it on the market. I agree that framing this kind of gameplay as a rebuilding effort is a good way to give it a role-playing motivation. On the contrary, if you specifically want to start a rebuilding project, dedicating yourself to all these things might turn out to be a real role-play killer, and take the fun out of your game experience.

[Myyona]

The people buying the items you sell most certainly care. One of the good things of this activity is that you can draw in non-dedicated role players on your activities.

Stocking a station with lots of different modules for sale is a great way to simulate rebuilding of a star systems economy because that is what you are effectively doing if we assume those sales taxes do not just vanish in thin air.

[Matariki Rain]

Some people are currently reviewing where the exit is, and checking their parachute harness, it makes other people less willing to commit, I think.

Sounds familiar.

So, if you were going to be here for only another... seven months, what stories would you like to have told? What arcs explored? If we're makIng good memories and going our separate ways, what memories do we want?

It's something I'm thinking about at the moment.

[Julianus Soter]

Speaking as a leader of a gaming community, the relationships and friendships we've made while playing eve are vastly more valuable then any small permutation in game mechanics and expansion release content.

The basic formula is, if( better game exists) then (go to said game)

At the moment, there is no better game in existence for larger scale group collaborative play. Simply doesn't exist anywhere.

So, we have to keep that in mind when going doom and gloom on the state of Eve. Some folks might get dissapointed with the fiction content they add in, with the books, or the limited excitement solo mission running/other small scale stuff provides. But those things aren't what eve is about, in the larger scheme of things.

Eve is about people working and playing together.

So, the most persistent and 'stable' RP is that which brings together a larger number of characters with a broader set of RP motivations, interests, and players backing them up with creativity, initiative, and enthusiasm.

Things you conduct between you and a small group of friends will be necessarily a greater burden on you and that small group to maintain. If the larger context of the game isn't as exciting for you, then I can imagine when the cost/benefit formula curves to the point where you don't feel that its worthwhile and you quit.

But it's possible to salvage your endeavor by expanding your base, and thereby reducing the creative strain on a few people, by spreading the collective participation.

[Bastian Valoron]

The people buying the items you sell most certainly care. One of the good things of this activity is that you can draw in non-dedicated role players on your activities.

In my experience selling things on the markets, and solo playing in general, leads by far to fewer character interactions than say fleet ops and shooting. Only once another trader has started a conversation and asked me to leave, clients - they never say anything.

Stocking a station with lots of different modules for sale is a great way to simulate rebuilding of a star systems economy because that is what you are effectively doing if we assume those sales taxes do not just vanish in thin air.

I agree completely. I guess my argument was that PI and Industry are too time-intensive to be used just as simple storyline elements/prods, without any other significance.

[Arkady Sadik]

So, the most persistent and 'stable' RP is that which brings together a larger number of characters with a broader set of RP motivations, interests, and players backing them up with creativity, initiative, and enthusiasm.

In my experience, putting emphasis on being "open" to all sorts of RP creates a shallow RP environment which reduces my motivation and interest. So I would not quite use this as generally applicable. ;-)

[Bacchanalian]

If, for example, someone was roleplaying the formation of an industrial corporation to help rebuild the Seyllin system, and made a call for investors to do so, then you'd get 2 offers for genuine support and about eight to declare their intentions to destroy it.

and how many of those 10 responses then go on to actually do anything about it? Anything at all? 

Hey hey hey hey hey, let's not get judgemental about RP in space and such, we know where that leads!  (yes, this is tongue in cheek)

[Julianus Soter]

So, the most persistent and 'stable' RP is that which brings together a larger number of characters with a broader set of RP motivations, interests, and players backing them up with creativity, initiative, and enthusiasm.

In my experience, putting emphasis on being "open" to all sorts of RP creates a shallow RP environment which reduces my motivation and interest. So I would not quite use this as generally applicable. ;-)

People's personal experiences differ. I believe you misinterpreted my statement, however. Not being open to all sorts of RP: Being open to all sorts of characters/players. Expanding the brain-base, not broadening the scope of the roleplay.