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[Arkady Sadik]

I like the general idea of that proposal, but it needs some work. Be careful with rewarding "more people" too much.

Shooting structures is no different from waiting a timer, except you can't capture a timer faster if you bring a huge fleet. Structures incentivize blobs.

Making attacks go too fast means defenders have barely any chance to defend. If I can capture a system in 10 minutes if I bring a nice-sized fleet, I do not expect anyone to be able to defend against it - it would be useless anyhow, as it's much easier to wait 2-3 days and take it back with a big and prepared fleet.

Also, be careful with incorporation mission running. The different faction militia sizes are very apparent here, and if using the more numerous mission runners of either side for this would be problematic for the smaller factions. In general, trying to avoid supporting the bigger factions too much shouldn't be forgotten.

[Andreus Ixiris]

FW cannot be fixed.

[Zag]

Re: Arkady

You bring up some valid points and I'd agree that there would be issues regarding, "more ships = better" with it. I think given my own experiences with FW there should be less of a divergence between 'plexing' and 'pvp'. Because the current system offers no tangible benefits, is mind-numbingly boring and for a lot of people in the militias is completely irrelevant.

I'd be in support for any FW system that offers actual incentives, rewards and objectives to be fought over that helps concentrates the 100 - 200 militia people usually on at any one time in the warzone. For me, that's a fundamental issue. Because right now it seems FW is mostly running up and down the OMS/Tama pipe for FDU/STPRO or roaming the Kourm/Auga/Amamake area for 24IC/TLF with occasional plexing done by those invested in it. There really isn't much reason for that to change currently, because FW as a system does not provide any need to do it differently.

[Seriphyn]

Don't know why CCP made Incursions when they could have put that effort into fixing FW with a similar mechanic.

[Lyn Farel]

If they want to break blobs, there is a way. Might be a little tough though, but well :

You basically create a system with deadspace pockets (like plexes, etc), with a number scaling. The first one getting into the installation can set up the gate to accept only a certain number of enemies. Meaning, if you are 2 of you going inside, only 2 enemies for example can get inside too (unless you are a little crazy or overconfident), even if their fleet has 2972379[...]832783 members. If you want to get more of your friends inside, you can definitly do it by changing the gate settings. Eventually, the one that controls the gate controls the numbers to get inside (so, the size of the fight). Of course, you can't set the gate to accept less enemies than your own numbers inside.

Of course, for more immersion you can still add NPC ideas where the capture is not based on timers anymore, but on different objectives depending on the kind of plex, much like in incursions : hacking something when you are on the offensive, so defenders would have to protect their NPCs not to make the thing to hack vulnerable, or just capturing a bunker where you have to drop enough marines inside (ofc, you have to destroy the defending NPCs before too), etc etc.

In the end, this would mean that even a single plexer or a solo player can do its part. But to avoid people just allowing one people inside and spreading everyone of their pilots each in a different plex, you can also cap the lower limit depending on the size of the plex : the size (small, average, large, XL, etc), not the type (minor, medium or major). That way you could have small minors, large minors, small majors, large majors, etc.

Too complex ? Maybe. Immersive and less boring ? Definitly. Blob breaking ? Yes.

My main issue with this is that I can't find a solution for neutrals getting inside. The easiest solution would be to make them unable to use the acceleration gates. But is that a good solution ?

I am pretty that this idea, very radical in itself, is pretty flawed in its current state.

[Arkady Sadik]

You basically create a system with deadspace pockets (like plexes, etc), with a number scaling. The first one getting into the installation can set up the gate to accept only a certain number of enemies. Meaning, if you are 2 of you going inside, only 2 enemies for example can get inside too (unless you are a little crazy or overconfident)

So I put an alt into the Amarr Militia, go into some plex with that guy, and am totally safe from defenders? I'm not sure that will create exciting PvP ... :-]

[Lyn Farel]

Mh I am not sure to understand. If your alt enters the plex, it starts the plex and makes it run for the Amarr side...

[Arkady Sadik]

Mh I am not sure to understand. If your alt enters the plex, it starts the plex and makes it run for the Amarr side...

I think the "not understanding" is mutual :-)

Currently, you need to be within 10/20/30 km of the button to run a plex. If this is still the case, I park my alt at 50km and run the plex, and because there's an Amarr and a Minmatar inside, no one can interfere.

Are you proposing to change this? If so: Is there a majority rule (1 Minmatar + 2 Amarr means it's running for Amarr - currently not)? How does it deal with cloakers (currently not affecting the timer)?

[Lyn Farel]

Who said it was still going to be a button ? :p

Yeah sorry, it was not obvious in my post, though I added this : "Of course, for more immersion you can still add NPC ideas where the capture is not based on timers anymore, but on different objectives depending on the kind of plex, much like in incursions : hacking something when you are on the offensive, so defenders would have to protect their NPCs not to make the thing to hack vulnerable, or just capturing a bunker where you have to drop enough marines inside (ofc, you have to destroy the defending NPCs before too), etc etc."

I find buttons running dumb anyway.

Sidenote : currently, if 2 WT enemies stand in the timer range, the timer usually stops running until one of them leaves or dies if I am correct.

[Arkady Sadik]

[quote author=Lyn Farel link=topic=2659.msg38798#msg38798 Sidenote : currently, if 2 WT enemies stand in the timer range, the timer usually stops running until one of them leaves or dies if I am correct.
[/quote]

Yes. Actually, if 10 pilots of side A and 1 pilot of side B are in range, it still stops running, i.e. it stops running without majority.

In your system, if side A is capturing a plex (regardless of how they do it - orbiting a button, hacking some cans, whatever), it is highly relevant what happens if the pilots park hostile alts in the plex. If they can continue whatever activity they are doing to capture the plex, they can effectively lock out any interference that way.

[Lyn Farel]

Hm yes, you mean that minmatar alts in the amarr militia for example would get in the plex and do nothing to capture it to prevent TRUE amarr pilots to capture it.

I am pretty sure a lot of solution can be found, but I will have to think a little about it.