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[John Revenent]

After three months of constant war from 2011.03.30 to 2011.06.14 between three Protectorate aligned corporations (W-BR/THE4/IBS), and a continuing conflict between I-RED/Protectorate pilots that still continues I wanted to see what the general consensus on I-RED actions, and shed some light on what our stance on the matter is.

To put it simply.. ever since the attack on I-RED ships in Black Rise by seemingly friendly corporations we have been looking into actions of the militia's and how they effect the State. We decided to retaliate in a attempt to lean on harmful elements and reduce their capability to conduct "piratical" operations in mainly our trade routes, and ensure the Caldari State's ethical standards (Honor) remained intact to an extent that we understood it as.

I am in no way implying I-RED have a clean slate in the conflict as we have made mistakes ones that we attempt to right, we have had many asset losses, we have lost many battles, and continue making a strenuous effort to keep everyone in check. Most of I-RED in a IC manner views the conflict as a Internal State Conflict, or Inter-corporate Conflict between I-RED/State Protectorate (Many would disagree with this no doubt.) much like mega's have conducted in the past. Even some Amarr loyalists had been involved during the earlier parts of the conflict trying to influence us into turning a blind eye toward the Protectorate's condition, which compounded with previous acts/debts/threats ultimately leading to the reset of the entire Amarr loyalist bloc.

It is also public knowledge that the main reason for I-RED being blue (+5 NAP) and conducting trade with corporations in the Federation Sphere's (We had most our blues in the FDU/Federation a year before the conflict began because of a mutual understanding after the MDP/Intaki wars.) was an attempt to reduce the chance of another conflict in Intaki impacting our economical efforts in the area.

We are pushing this story arc in the best manner that we can leaving it open for more involvement, also the ability for it to evolve.

So as I said before I wanted to poke the RP community to see what your input/thoughts on the conflict were ICly or OOCly, if we are acting more along the lines of a internal conflict or traitors of the State, even a few idea's are welcome.

 

[Bacchanalian]

k

[Lyn Farel]

Even some Amarr loyalists had been involved during the earlier parts of the conflict trying to influence us into turning a blind eye toward the Protectorate's condition, which compounded with previous acts/debts/threats ultimately leading to the reset of the entire Amarr loyalist bloc.

Well, more than the loyalist bloc, then. Oh of course, now, you would be right to do it, some of the liberals also are helping in Placid caldari corporations you are at war with. But I continue to think that you did a huge mistake to erase every standing with all the amarrian entities, and not just the conservative bloc.

My character continues to support I-RED ICly, more or less.

[Desiderya]

It's a thin line. Des wouldn't agree with the validity of the internal conflict as this (militia) war was agreed upon by both participants. Therefore it is a State matter, and not just Tibus Heth's ambitions. Furthermore it is prudent to stick together against outside threats on the surface. Friendly relations with federation aligned corporations aren't a big deal as long as they are for trade or economical reasons. Forming bonds with corporations fighting caldari agents is an entirely different matter.
Getting called fascist for merely having a patriot's point of view doesn't help with the friendly relations either.

OOCly: It's interesting to watch the development of this angle of the conflict.

[Graelyn]

From my point of view, once I-RED allied with Gallente corps, and severed ties with Amarr, they were lost. These action by themselves made I-RED's enemies out to look really good, which was followed by a period of battlefield dominance.

Wolfsbrigade, on the other hand, eventually joined Amarr.

Of course, since I've joined Wolfsbrigade as of yesterday, my opinion on the matter will probably be seen as a bit biased. 

[Seriphyn]

Actually, offering my own biased opinion, I-RED's enemies (STPRO) are making themselves look right villainous by also going after ILF, calling for "total conquest" of Placid regardless of local interest. People have forgotten that the Ishukone Corporation itself has aligned itself with a major Federation member (from the outset of course), arguably one of the most, if not the most, influential members of all.

If one views STPRO as "Heth's dogs", then this is certainly characteristic. I doubt the Provists would give two shits about the Intaki and go straight for damaging the Federation outright (and most of the State itself; Mordu's Legion is a negligible connection when the vast majority of Intaki are in the Federation and pro-Gallente). To me, the Caldari, especially their military factions, are concerned more about getting the job done and defeating the enemy rather than being sentimental crusaders on a quest to liberate the poor Intaki from the ebil Federation.

I think it's great, really. Makes a good contrast between the FDU who are more ideological and politically vocal about the war "Defending the freedom of the people!" and the STPRO, who are more "You will be defeated and conquered for the glory of the State".

[Desiderya]

That whole "Glory for the State"  is way out of proportions btw, most simply do their part, nothing more.

[Hamish Grayson]

Actually, offering my own biased opinion, I-RED's enemies (STPRO) are making themselves look right villainous by also going after ILF...

I think it's great, really. Makes a good contrast between the FDU who are more ideological and politically vocal about the war "Defending the freedom of the people!" and the STPRO, who are more "You will be defeated and conquered for the glory of the State".

Ah, such short memories.

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1251705/page/1

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1174940/page/1

[Hamish Grayson]

At John:  Hamish understands the reasons behind most of  the choices John has made.   He had to make hard decisions in order to insure the survival of I-RED; the timing of those actions was terrible and prevented 4th, I-RED and W-BR from becoming the powerful Caldari coalition it could have been...but who has the time or energy for that sort of thing anyway.

[BloodBird]

Actually, offering my own biased opinion, I-RED's enemies (STPRO) are making themselves look right villainous by also going after ILF...

I think it's great, really. Makes a good contrast between the FDU who are more ideological and politically vocal about the war "Defending the freedom of the people!" and the STPRO, who are more "You will be defeated and conquered for the glory of the State".

Ah, such short memories.

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1251705/page/1

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1174940/page/1

Problem is, Hamish, that when a Fed-aligned entity (like Moira. at the time) engages with the ILF it's seen as an act by a 'loyalist' against supposed 'dis-loyal' people; aka ILF's separatist goals run counter to the rest of Intaki's will to stay aligned with the Fed - a small civil war, if you will.

On the other hand, when the supposed loyalists of the Caladri state - an entity utterly unaffiliated with either faction (Pro-Fed Intaki and separatist Intaki) go out of their way to screw over all involved parties, it becomes something different entierly; not only are these Caldari engaging the Pro-Fed parties (as one would expect) perhaps along the federal separatists (would be a wise move, helping them harm the Fed and looking like the 'good guys' along the way) they are also engaging the separatists who would preffer that everyone just piss off and leave the area. Ergo, they give the impression that they don't care one iota about what the Intaki want or need or say, coming off as heart-less conquerors and invaders intending to annex the area for their own selfish gain; this feeds the Pro-Fed angle of the conflict by making it potentially 3-way and, who knows, perhaps the Separatists will align with the 'evil they know' before embracing an entierly new one.

And on top of this, you have the I-RED alliance, on friendly terms with the Intaki separatist group and opposed to the protectorate agression and quasi-piracy, further compounding the issue and making the entire conflict alot more complicated and deep.

[orange]

See IGS for my response?

[Varlerian]

ICly, Varlerian understands John and the decisions he had to make (although he definitely wouldn't agree with every decision that has been made). In the end though, us Hyasyoda-loyalists will stand till the end alongside our Ishukone allies and...friends. <3

Of course my PvP char is an I-RED member so I may be a bit biased. ;-)


P.S. I DEMANDZ A STATE CIVIL WAHR!!1

[Vincent Pryce]

P.S. I DEMANDZ A STATE CIVIL WAHR!!1

This would be pretty cool to see from an RP perspective. It could stir nice RP among the State Loyalists.

It would also open ground for several pirate factions to get involve probably with the State theme namely the Guristas, would be a too golden opportunity to fuck the State over good and proper to pass on.

However I could see Serpentis trying to back one side of the conflict maybe hoping to get an official Megacorp status in the State or some such ( be it just player made event for RP, would make for an interesting angle), and well every where there's war, there's profit for those willing to flourish on the suffering of others and where there's profits of anykind - be it favours owed or purely monetary, you'll find Angels.

Ok now I'm rambling, but it could make for interesting RP breeding grounds.

[Graelyn]

...the timing of those actions was terrible and prevented 4th, I-RED and W-BR from becoming the powerful Caldari coalition it could have been...

That would have been way too awesome to have ever actually happened.

[orange]

P.S. I DEMANDZ A STATE CIVIL WAHR!!1

This would be pretty cool to see from an RP perspective. It could stir nice RP among the State Loyalists.

And possibly result in the lose of some of those active IGS participants (I say this because there are RP entities who lack such presence).

For example, lets say a State RP-corp shooting civil war does occur.  LDIS and any allies we can find in the STPRO vs I-RED and their allies.  4TH is unlikely to get involved, focusing on Providence.  I will hazard LDIS does not come out in one piece.

But the civil war is sort of already happening, just not in entirely overt ways.