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[Victoria Stecker]

I think the CSM response pretty well summed up my response to the situation: "Here's what CCP did, here's why we were all justifiably upset, here's what they've done and said, and here's why we don't need to be upset anymore." Admittedly, when Fearless first came out, I was one of the first to say, 'no, really, the fact that it's in a newsletter doesn't make it company policy.' It was more the first-class manner in which CCP failed to handle the situation that concerned me.

I think it was actually very savvy on their part to bring in CSM - given that CSM didn't really tell them anything they couldn't have figured out from looking at the forum for ten minutes. But now they can say that they did and said what they did because of CSM and not because of forum rage.

[Mizhara]

Senn, like Revan said earlier, there were legitimate concerns with the patch. Were those the ones that spawned the massive forum rage and shooting of monuments in Amarr? Maybe one out of a hundred of them. Yes, I'm a CCP supporter because I realize they are a company that's got a bottom line to consider and yet manage to take the players' views into account. That is... the players who did it the right way and approached them through the petition system, through the CSM and so on.

The grand majority of the complaining had little to do with performance and hardware issues. Really, go hit those protest threads and start counting the posts that are actual well-written complaints with legitimate issues in them and compare them to the massive bitchfest about monocles and P2W.

There never was a P2W issue, and the hardware/performance problems almost drowned in the horrible display of juvenile hissyfits.

Eve players have this strange obsession with turning CCP into some sort of enemy that needs to be fought and jeered at, which I can't for the life of me understand. They're the ones we need on our side, and the only way we're going to make that happen is to behave like bloody adults and voice our grievances in a proper and systematic manner. I will continue to support CCP because they have yet to show me they're not worthy of that support and trust. Like the devblog just showed (and the CSM apparently is happy with), there never were plans to introduce P2W. There was only brainstorming which necessarily has to include both extreme ends of the spectrum, and even in that document the majority of it argued against it.

They're on our side, as long as we stay realistic and understand that they have a bottom line to consider.

[Revan Neferis]

Senn, like Revan said earlier, there were legitimate concerns with the patch. Were those the ones that spawned the massive forum rage and shooting of monuments in Amarr? Maybe one out of a hundred of them. Yes, I'm a CCP supporter because I realize they are a company that's got a bottom line to consider and yet manage to take the players' views into account. That is... the players who did it the right way and approached them through the petition system, through the CSM and so on.

The grand majority of the complaining had little to do with performance and hardware issues. Really, go hit those protest threads and start counting the posts that are actual well-written complaints with legitimate issues in them and compare them to the massive bitchfest about monocles and P2W.

There never was a P2W issue, and the hardware/performance problems almost drowned in the horrible display of juvenile hissyfits.

Eve players have this strange obsession with turning CCP into some sort of enemy that needs to be fought and jeered at, which I can't for the life of me understand. They're the ones we need on our side, and the only way we're going to make that happen is to behave like bloody adults and voice our grievances in a proper and systematic manner. I will continue to support CCP because they have yet to show me they're not worthy of that support and trust. Like the devblog just showed (and the CSM apparently is happy with), there never were plans to introduce P2W. There was only brainstorming which necessarily has to include both extreme ends of the spectrum, and even in that document the majority of it argued against it.

They're on our side, as long as we stay realistic and understand that they have a bottom line to consider.

Strange times when I see my words reflected on your post Mizhara.
It resumes my whole feeling on the matter really.

[Saede Riordan]

NeX is still too expensive. Fine, charge a lot of a monocle so it doesn't flood everyone's avatars, but a skirt shouldn't be so damned expensive.

When Establishments come out, how many of us will be wearing those Minmatar vest jackets? We need cheap stuff for the sake of variety when we all go drinking together, or whatever.

I believe they will keep a good balance between exclusive items ( i wouldnt call it overpriced, if they are exclusive they will be above average naturally ) and more accessible items. It's like this in any major MT games around so I suspect the model wont change much. Maybe they will go for limited time exclusive items too, ive seen around some games and they are usually good top sellers while they are offered. ( specially for collectors )

I'd like to believe there will be cheap items. But if a damn monocle is 1.4 billion isk, how much do you think tattoo sleeves, or dresses, or clothes that aren't just generics will cost? No one but the uber-rich will be able to afford anything but the very 'cheapest' items. I know I won't be able to afford anything from the store, so I'm going to have to continue handwaving Nikita's appearance.

[Revan Neferis]

NeX is still too expensive. Fine, charge a lot of a monocle so it doesn't flood everyone's avatars, but a skirt shouldn't be so damned expensive.

When Establishments come out, how many of us will be wearing those Minmatar vest jackets? We need cheap stuff for the sake of variety when we all go drinking together, or whatever.

I believe they will keep a good balance between exclusive items ( i wouldnt call it overpriced, if they are exclusive they will be above average naturally ) and more accessible items. It's like this in any major MT games around so I suspect the model wont change much. Maybe they will go for limited time exclusive items too, ive seen around some games and they are usually good top sellers while they are offered. ( specially for collectors )

I'd like to believe there will be cheap items. But if a damn monocle is 1.4 billion isk, how much do you think tattoo sleeves, or dresses, or clothes that aren't just generics will cost? No one but the uber-rich will be able to afford anything but the very 'cheapest' items. I know I won't be able to afford anything from the store, so I'm going to have to continue handwaving Nikita's appearance.

That's a bit subjective because it depends of ccp's own market research on the actual playerbase condition x what is perceived as cheap by each one of us.
I can only give my own references on this regard, if you ask me, in terms of isk 1.4 billion is already cheap.  I will not turn this in rl money to not cause such discussion to rise here regarding who can afford or not, this is another matter.
Again in terms of isk, I'd say that something borthering around 10, 20 billions could be considered an exclusive collectors item with a certain public to afford it. More than that, although many could afford it, it would take a bit of more incentive to justify the investment.
For cheap, it also depends if ccp's intention is to make NEX accessible to new players too.  If yes, this is a complicated question because it would have to drag the values of common items down to something a new player with 30 days at space could afford and im sure this value is very minimal and wouldnt justify the development of the items.
So, yes im not sure how the " cheap" part would work, there is a lot to consider on MT behind the obvious.

[Jade Constantine]

NeX is still too expensive. Fine, charge a lot of a monocle so it doesn't flood everyone's avatars, but a skirt shouldn't be so damned expensive.

When Establishments come out, how many of us will be wearing those Minmatar vest jackets? We need cheap stuff for the sake of variety when we all go drinking together, or whatever.

I believe they will keep a good balance between exclusive items ( i wouldnt call it overpriced, if they are exclusive they will be above average naturally ) and more accessible items. It's like this in any major MT games around so I suspect the model wont change much. Maybe they will go for limited time exclusive items too, ive seen around some games and they are usually good top sellers while they are offered. ( specially for collectors )

I'd like to believe there will be cheap items. But if a damn monocle is 1.4 billion isk, how much do you think tattoo sleeves, or dresses, or clothes that aren't just generics will cost? No one but the uber-rich will be able to afford anything but the very 'cheapest' items. I know I won't be able to afford anything from the store, so I'm going to have to continue handwaving Nikita's appearance.

Well it'll probably end up being that way anyways - roleplay via text channels will always be superior to clumsy avatars standing around and doing limited emotes (even if we had some). I guess we can see the clothing as a kind of ooc'ish affectation for the rl rich that are simply paying for the development of the game for poorer players(ish). Something like one of those charity banquets ...

For my part I am very disappointed it looks like there will be no player manufactured clothing on the response to this meeting but if thats the price of no gamebreaking microtransactions I guess its not the worst of all worlds.

*shrugs* - I still have mixed feelings about all this but I guess its neither as bad or as good as it might have been.

[Saede Riordan]

That's a bit subjective because it depends of ccp's own market research on the actual playerbase condition x what is perceived as cheap by each one of us.
I can only give my own references on this regard, if you ask me, in terms of isk 1.4 billion is already cheap. 

1.4 bil isn't cheap for me, its more isk then I've ever had in my wallet at one time, and I think that goes for a lot of people. Yes, people will buy things if they're in that price bracket, but again, my fear is that if a monocle is that much, then what's a corset going to cost? a dress? a new tattoo? Maybe you can afford it, but I can't, and so I, and a lot of other people, are completely cut off from any and all content coming out of the virtual store.

[Graelyn]

Well, I'm relieved on the whole. I can keep playing EVE. CSM did exactly what they needed to.

I'm also astounded at those who don't know what the hubub was about, but I guess the unobservant stay unobservant.

[Casiella]

Nikita: for better or worse, that's the point. Some stuff is priced higher so that it's a status symbol for those who can afford it.

[Mizhara]

That's a bit subjective because it depends of ccp's own market research on the actual playerbase condition x what is perceived as cheap by each one of us.
I can only give my own references on this regard, if you ask me, in terms of isk 1.4 billion is already cheap. 

1.4 bil isn't cheap for me, its more isk then I've ever had in my wallet at one time, and I think that goes for a lot of people. Yes, people will buy things if they're in that price bracket, but again, my fear is that if a monocle is that much, then what's a corset going to cost? a dress? a new tattoo? Maybe you can afford it, but I can't, and so I, and a lot of other people, are completely cut off from any and all content coming out of the virtual store.

Honestly? I don't see a problem with this. There's a lot of us out there that can swing monocles for all characters if we'd so desire, and some will do so. CCP gets what they want, and some of us gets what we want. A vanity/collectible item. I personally won't be buying any of them (even though those boots would look sweet on Miz) since in RP I already have far more bitchin' duds as it were... but I still don't mind it.

If I couldn't buy them, eh... wouldn't bother me. Hell, if I couldn't afford it and still wanted it, it'd just spur my efforts to make money.

It's not that hard to get 1.4b ISK, really. Just takes effort and a little planning.

Besides... who says everyone's 'entitled' to anything from that store? You're not 'entitled' to a Titan either. You have to work for anything that's worth anything in this game, and I really don't mind that this store works on the same principle.

As for Graelyn's 'unobservant' choice of words: There's a major difference between 'unobservant' and 'different perspective'. I recommend a bit more care taken in word choice, as you're skirting on the edge of a few rules here.

[Casiella]

Your perspective, as several of us have noted, has led you not to "observe" almost every single issue that came up, bar one. I recommend a bit more care taken in reading what others have said to you.

[Rao Kappa]

Back in the days of uniforms and mandatory musters, when I'd get riled up over who knows what, a CO of mine once asked, "Is this the hill you want to die on?"

For some of you, this is that hill, for others, it isn't. For people who choose not to die on this hill, it doesn't mean we're unobservant of the issues, or ignorant of the situation. It just means our priorities and choices don't match yours.

It's just two sets of people standing on different sides of the same fence.

[Ghost Hunter]

neat, they're looking at the performance issues

was wondering how I was going to dualclient my /sipping

[Bacchanalian]

I submit you have misinterpreted the situation by leaps and bounds.

I think that particular honor goes to those that had a massive ragefit over that internal brainstorming session, then took that as some sort of writ in stone prophecy.

You're missing the point.  Doing what we did served the purpose--it let CCP know exactly how we felt about that particular side of the internal discussion and made it absolutely clear to them.

I never unsubbed Bacch, and did not intend to do so unless something else came out confirming that CCP was headed towards p2w.  But I did pull various alt accounts with the express purpose of voting with my wallet, even if I intended to resub them again later provided CCP didn't go full derp.

Ultimately I think the community sent a powerful message to CCP, and regardless of what their real intentions were, they now know how the community will react if they do wind up going down that road and it will make them stop and think very hard about it before going there in the future.

How much do we trust CCP's statement, incidentally?  A year ago they had someone on EVE TV saying that they would never, ever go to microtransactions, ever.  A year later, they're a reality.  I want to give CCP the benefit of the doubt, sometimes it's hard to do.

[Misan]

As for Graelyn's 'unobservant' choice of words: There's a major difference between 'unobservant' and 'different perspective'. I recommend a bit more care taken in word choice, as you're skirting on the edge of a few rules here.

[mod]Please don't backseat moderate. Either report if you think it against the rules or address the content of the comments. [/mod]