Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chowda]

Why people can't just have fun in the game without getting all butt-hurt talking about it is beyond me.

[orange]

Why people can't just have fun in the game without getting all butt-hurt talking about it is beyond me.

I have plenty of fun in the game.  Most of the time I have little to no interaction with many players' characters in the game.  The place we interact IC is IGS most often and most of the time we aren't actually interacting, but rather trying to convince those not taking part in the conversation of our message.

The problem arises that many of us have delved into the world's fiction and come to conclusions that a cursory review does not provide.

[Senn Typhos]

Why people can't just have fun in the game without getting all butt-hurt talking about it is beyond me.

Because the same people ignore the same in-depth conversational points about the same topics.

Did anyone who signed up for a Caldari character look through their lore and such and think they were going to be playing an "evil" character from a tyrannical civilization?

[Hamish Grayson]

Well, from a timeline written by CCP Ginger[/url

Having observed CCP, and CCP's publishing of PF being a specific interest of mine, for almost eight years I have come to the conclusion there the is not a PF bible.   I believe that CCP ginger has the exact same access to PF that you and I do.

The quotes below provide insight into the general culture of CCP, and while some will certainly disagree with me, I am of the opinion that the senior management of CCP cares very little about the nuances of the back-story.   I am of the opinion that it’s maintenance is regulated to very junior staff who show interest in such things and even then only as collateral duty.  I believe that it is the lowest possible priority at CCP and as such the problems in communication, documentation and guidance will be expressed most strongly in it.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm

Communication and knowledge sharing is a disaster, there is little or no documentation for older areas of development and documentation is still considered optional by many. There are multiple braking points in communication

CCP struggles severely with internal and external communications. The senior management preaches corporate values which are unfortunately never reflected in actions...It is simply not possible to have a good balance between communication at the coffee machine and a proper paper trail to make sure that things actually get understood and acted on.

This is highlighted by less than capable management with poor communication skills.

The lack of communication and transparency can be quite frustrating...There exists no employee handbook or procedural handbook to help codify the systems of all three offices.

Factional warfare was not created to enhance the back-story, it was created to enhance the PVP experience of new players and they tied it into the pre-existing LP system which used Navy tags as currency.   Rather than rework the entire LP system, the programmers just had the new NPCs drop Navy tags.    This is at odds with the news articles that stated very clearly that Navy personnel would not be involved in the Faction war.   The reason for this error is because communication at CCP is poor and because consistency in PF is the lowest of any priority at the company.

this a case of the Caldari Navy being portrayed as "bad guys" and "tyrannical invaders"…it appears as if you don't like the idea of the Caldari Navy being portrayed as aggressors and invaders.

This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.

To counter your ad hominem attack on our argument ( which makes me question my sanity for attempting discourse with you yet again); What this is really about is two players who have developed their characters around the nuances within the Caldari state attempting to explain these nuances and our frustration at your campaign to obscure them.

Not that any of this matters anyhow.  The PF changes with every new junior staffer assigned to throw something up for the next feature.

[Andreus Ixiris]

This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.

 

[Senn Typhos]

This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.

 

Is it really that frustrating that not everyone agrees with the one interpretation you've developed?   

[Desiderya]

Both Hamish and Dex make quite some sense here.

[Myyona]

I rember from the Caldari epic arc that in the mission where you liberate the Caldari POWs each of the prisons are tagged with one of the Caldari mega corporations and a single are tagged as containing Caldari Navy personel.

At least the Caldari Navy is conducting enough business in the war zones to have their people getting caught by the Gallente once in while.

[BloodBird]

This presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are bad guys or tyrannical invaders, which is a fallacy to start with.

 

Is it really that frustrating that not everyone agrees with the one interpretation you've developed?   

IMHO his annoyance with the above is likely that it appears Hamish makes a mistake; he summarises that Seri claims the State FW NPC's *are* "bad guys or tyrannical invaders" - he did not. Seri presupposes that the State forces in FW zone are PORTRAYED AS bad guys or tyrannical invaders with their occupation of Federation space, not that they were by default. The FN is in a simmilar light when they hold State space taken by the FDU.

[orange]

I rember from the Caldari epic arc that in the mission where you liberate the Caldari POWs each of the prisons are tagged with one of the Caldari mega corporations and a single are tagged as containing Caldari Navy personel.

At least the Caldari Navy is conducting enough business in the war zones to have their people getting caught by the Gallente once in while.

I do not have  problem with the Caldari Navy having a presence in the warzones; they have stations in Black Rise. In my above description they would necessarily have a part to play - coordination and reaction.  But the Caldari Navy is not alone in the effort to defend Black Rise & the Citadel.

If a FDU pilot is plexing in Black Rise, the opposing ships could be Caldari Navy, State Protectorate, Home Guard, Lai Dai Protection Service, or Wirykomi Peace Corps.

Do they drop Caldari Navy tags?  Yes, but 

Factional warfare was not created to enhance the back-story, it was created to enhance the PVP experience of new players and they tied it into the pre-existing LP system which used Navy tags as currency.   Rather than rework the entire LP system, the programmers just had the new NPCs drop Navy tags.

[Bureeiku]

Re: IGS post

I love it.  Any RP stuff going on in and around where we are flying about is welcome fun.

Re: CalNavy in Intaki

I just chalk it up to an inconsistency in programming and leave it up to individual interpretation.  If you follow the Blind Auction chronicle's logic, it should only be Mordu's Legion in Intaki in any military capacity.

Also, by showing FDU pilots that they are battling enemy Navy ships instead of enemy Militia ships goes against the PF around FW, does it not?  My understanding has always been that the Militia's are the only ones 'legally' condoned to fight each other by Concord (nullsec and war decs excluded).  Then again, other NPC stuff (e.g. missions) doesn't fit into the 'player experience' perfectly, so there you go.

Re: Possibility of an invasion.

Again looking back at Blind Auction, you'd think there was a no-soldiers agreement in place at least for the Caldari, since Mordu's is the 'muscle' making the deal work.  But, then again, who knows what lengths Heth would go to?

To sum it up:

I think we can all agree that PF inconsistencies or hazy information can be frustrating.  Heck, my RP panties are still in a bit of a bunch over our difference in interpretation with STPRO over piracy, war rights, etc.  However!  It can also be a source of fun - just last night, after a scrum with STPRO, all our guys are having a great time, and one of the STPRO guys posts in local, "wow epic fight, good one!"... was nice to see that it was good times for all.

[Ember Vykos]

Re: IGS post

I love it.  Any RP stuff going on in and around where we are flying about is welcome fun.

I too am enjoying this immensly. I never have been much of an IGS poster, but this is pretty fun.

Would like to point out though that while I may be giving you guys a hard time IC. I have nothing but respect OOC. ILF and I-RED were two places I looked at as possible homes for Simca before I settled on the militia.

[Chowda]

EDIT - What you're basically saying is that the news items are not reliable sources of prime fiction, and that the Scope ("the most reliable news service in the world") is lying, as is the Caldari Providence Directorate in the quote "However, the CPD makes it clear that no additional national resources are to be allocated to protect mega-corporate activities from Federation militia counterattacks "unless directed as part of strategic Caldari naval operations in the vicinity."". Are the Provists lying then?

Keep in mind that even though Scope articles have been been the best window to the EVE world outside of the game itself, they are still news article.  Some news stories can be cold, hard fact.  Others, the sources in the articles are making point of view distortions or flat out lying.  Then there's the possibility the reporter has their own agenda and adapts the article to fit their world view.

The contradictions in EVE PF are compounded by this, making it impossible for the player to figure out what is and what is not.  There is an answer because there can only be one actual truth, but I don't think anyone (even CCP employees) know it 100%.  When they finish that PF publication Tony G was talking about months back, we can rezero a lot more.  Maybe not totally agree, but have a much better idea as that will be the superior knowledge source. 

Until then, this all painfully reminds me of nuclear plant drill briefs on my ship that went on for 3-4 hours a day.  There was always something in the mountainous amount of references that raised the possibility what we were about to do was wrong.  I didn't like sitting through those, and some of the arguing here is just like the circular arguments I'd hear ad nauseam.     

[Bacchanalian]

Since my last post got gestapo-ified. 

Is this an event that involves discharging ammunition into the ship hulls of other players in space or does it merely entail emoting and talking in local chat?

(that better?)

[John Revenent]

http://combat.ishukone-raata.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=16052

Ammo into hulls. For I-RED at least =P