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[Kaleigh Doyle]

Personally, I've never been one of those glaring optimists who feels every vote counts, and in the case of making your voice heard by unsubscribing can be as effective if the momentum holds. It's been my experience on internet forum boards that negativity tends to prevail and bitching (countered by the occasional fanboi) is the norm. I'm sure you could attribute some of it to anonymity; people are far more likely to spew shit behind a computer screen than in the face of some programmer. I know I cringe every time I run into some glaring bug or flaw in a game that makes you wonder whether anyone even bothered to playtest the game before they released it. (try dragging a bookmark into your P&P and see what happens)

Ultimately, as a player, you have to ask yourself whether the experience you have in this game is worth the money you spend per month on it, and not worry about the sunk costs of all that time you spent playing it. Are you having fun in EVE? Is it entertaining you?  Those questions are far more important than, am I sending an important message to a company about their policies and product?

[Casiella]

Based on the new thread, I hear somebody saying "Message received, Captain Needa."

[Bacchanalian]

Every expansion brings out the Eve is dying argument. Every expansion spawns a threadnaught. It all really amounts to nothing.

The difference is, this one introduces a lot of possibilities for EVE nickel and diming us, and a leaked internal newsletter indicates that they are seriously considering taking it from a minor inconsequential (lol@him for spending $70 on a monocle, I'm gonna smartbomb his pod in highsec with an alt to see him cry) vanity toy to something that will impact the game where it matters--in space.  Uber ammo for cash?  Skillpoints or attributes for cash?  These are things that will seriously impact gameplay--you simply cannot argue otherwise.  And seeing CCP having a serious discussion about doing these things to EVE?  It's caused a lot of people to not simply cry on the forums, but lose a lot of faith in CCP altogether.  I'm not going to say I'm one of them yet, but I will say I'm seriously alarmed.  I raged about the nano nerf, but I never unsubbed over it.  I'm not raging over this, but I'm keeping a close eye on it and it will play into my future decisions about resubbing my many accounts.

[Kyoko Sakoda]

Every game developer has the right to debate internally how they should increase revenue, pitch their product, and communicate with their player base. To any sane person, the leaked newsletter should equal a shrug. It's what CCP ends up doing -- not the ideas they throw around amongst themselves -- that matters. The newsletter leak is just more fuel for the trolls.

That said, they have made blunder after blunder since Fanfest and have a lot of introspection to do. As much as I like Stoffer, I believe that after reading his argument he needs to spend more time with EVE and less time with WoT. He's lead game designer now and has a HUGE responsibility to the community and customer base. I'm not being hypocritical here; he is entitled to his opinion. But his opinion has to be infused with community input. He must also consider past promises (such as "microtransactions will only be for vanity items"). Game design is more responsible to the community than pretty much any other division, probably even bizdev.

The number one thing that strikes me as fucked up among all the other much less meaningful things is the price of a microtransaction. 'Micro' as a prefix was certainly lost on someone or some team within CCP, and something is dreadfully wrong when a virtual shirt or blouse costs more than the real life counterpart.

[Louella Dougans]

this one introduces a lot of possibilities for EVE nickel and diming us, and a leaked internal newsletter indicates that they are seriously considering taking it from a minor inconsequential vanity toy to something that will impact the game where it matters--in space.

What is your thoughts on the Ship Fittings thing that was mentioned as a possibility ?

To me, that affects things in space - the current limit of 50 stored fits makes it less convenient to fly a variety of ships - and the suggestion of paying to increase that limit, to make the process of fitting a ship more convenient, doesn't sit right.

In addition to this, it is the precedent set. Stored fittings were moved from local to server, and a limit on numbers was introduced. Proposing increasing that limit in return for money feels like: Removing things and then expecting you to buy them back.

Just like they've mentioned as regards clothes in other threads. Removing the choice of the free clothes in the character customisation, so that the only clothes you can choose from are ones you've bought for Aurum (or isk spent purchasing them from someone who did spend Aurum).


Taking things away, and then putting in a thing to buy them back, doesn't feel right at all. And ship fittings looks to me, like encroaching onto the spaceships aspect of the game.

[Bacchanalian]

As much as I like Stoffer, I believe that after reading his argument he needs to spend more time with EVE and less time with WoT.

Unfortunately, t20 made that impossible.  And at this point I think I'd rather risk some GM abuse than continue with CCP being run by people who aren't even allowed to play the game they're tinkering with.

What is your thoughts on the Ship Fittings thing that was mentioned as a possibility ?

Would have zero impact on me.  I stopped using the ship fitting thing when it erased my fits with every patch.  And we don't use corp-wide fittings, we have an extensive fitting forum and wiki for them, and frankly at least in STIM we expect our pilots to either know how to fit their ship properly without someone telling them what goes where, or that they'll ask before they undock and derp a shitfit.  If they aren't capable of either, they last about 48 hours or until they lose their second ship, whichever comes first.

In addition to this, it is the precedent set. Stored fittings were moved from local to server, and a limit on numbers was introduced. Proposing increasing that limit in return for money feels like: Removing things and then expecting you to buy them back.

Fair point, and that's a dangerous precedent to set.

[Vikarion]

I left this forum, but I thought I'd come back for this, because as far as Eve goes, it is important. I'm quitting Eve, and it's mostly because of the newsletter and the micro-transactions.

I don't like the fact that CCP seems to avoid fixing old problems or completing content. FW can be irritating, I don't like super capitals, and etc. I've also been rather annoyed by the tendency of CCP to nerf the facets of gameplay I enjoy. But I can get over that.

What I can't get over is that CCP stated that there would be no non-vanity micro-transactions, and the newsletter indicated clearly that holding to their word means absolutely nothing to them. To me, integrity is very important - even in Eve, I still haven't managed to like the idea of scamming someone - and it absolutely infuriated me to read that newsletter. At that moment, I lost any sense of trust in the company.

And then, I became apathetic. I just didn't care. I've been playing for years, but the memories and the fun have become bland and tasteless. Is that an emotional response? Yes, but Eve is about emotion. I played it because it was a game that gave me highs and lows and adventure and fun.

If CCP reiterates their stance against non-vanity MT, I may come back. Maybe even soon. But I really don't see that happening. It makes me sick and a little angry to see them going down this path, but I can't stop them. On the other hand, if they do, I hope Eve dies a quick death. It deserves that much.

So, for my friends and enemies, fly safe. 

[Kyoko Sakoda]

As much as I like Stoffer, I believe that after reading his argument he needs to spend more time with EVE and less time with WoT.

Unfortunately, t20 made that impossible.  And at this point I think I'd rather risk some GM abuse than continue with CCP being run by people who aren't even allowed to play the game they're tinkering with.

Wrong. They are. They have to give up their characters for new ones, and the people that deal with the database have to stop playing altogether for a few months, but the reason Internal Affairs exists is because CCPers play the game.

[Bacchanalian]

As much as I like Stoffer, I believe that after reading his argument he needs to spend more time with EVE and less time with WoT.

Unfortunately, t20 made that impossible.  And at this point I think I'd rather risk some GM abuse than continue with CCP being run by people who aren't even allowed to play the game they're tinkering with.

Wrong. They are. They have to give up their characters for new ones, and the people that deal with the database have to stop playing altogether for a few months, but the reason Internal Affairs exists is because CCPers play the game.

Noted. 

[Aria Jenneth]

Invelious, if you liked the irony, before, you're going to love it now.

I've just cancelled my subscription.

Like Merdaneth, mine won't run out until April, so CCP has plenty of time to mend its ways. My motives are subtly different, but only subtly: it's not that I think CCP has been putting its effort in the wrong places, it's that their business plan is one I don't care to participate in.

Unless they reverse themselves, utterly and believably, they've collected my last fee.

[Lyn Farel]

I am about to cancel mine too, for ethical reasons.

[BloodBird]

I am about to cancel mine too, for ethical reasons.

Somehow 'ethical reasons' sounded so terribly naive. Would you elaborate so I see your POW?

As for everyone and their mothers un-subbing, with the exception of Vik (j/k:P) I'll miss ya'all 

[Wanoah]

Ethical reasons? Well, personally I boycott several companies on general principle. I know that my personal boycott means nothing to them. My purchasing power is a tiny drop in a large consumerist ocean. I'm not going to change anything because I don't buy a Kit Kat occasionally. What is important is that the boycott means something to me. I feel better for not giving these people money. Money that I don't give to companies that I despise is money that is used elsewhere, and perhaps even for something that is more ethical.

I boycott Nestlé. That is a company that behaves like it is run by a fucking comic book supervillain, it's so bad.

I have also boycotted Sony for a number of years. They make things that I like and they make them well, usually, but they have angered me so many times with the way they do business and the way they fuck you over in some way every time you buy one of their products. Being a Sony customer is like being a battered wife in A&E after "falling down the stairs" for the fifteenth time and telling everyone that you "Still love me husband. He don't mean it."

I also tend to avoid Asda/Walmart and Tesco most of the time because I have such a high level of contempt for the abusive and exploitative way they do business.

As much as I possibly can, I buy stuff from local suppliers. It feels better.

As for this expansion, well, it was supposed to be the expansion that saw me resubbing. I don't think I'll bother now, as it looks distinctly underwhelming. Oh well. I'm pretty much weaned off Eve, anyway, so no biggie for me. I just keep tabs on things because I still know one or two people that play and I have a soft spot for it.

And just to be clear: I fucking loved Eve. Loved it. It occupies a massive piece of my gaming history. Testament to that is that I still think about it and talk about it now, after three years away from it. I miss it. Or the idea of it at least.

I haven't liked the way CCP have been heading for a number of years and recent developments are just icing on the cake for me. Further evidence that they have lost their way. The novels, statements of intent to 'monetize the IP,' the ever-growing pile of unfinished features, the unforgivable fiasco that is DUST, the equally unforgivable micro transactions, the farce that has been the development of this walking in stations stuff, 'Team Awesome,' and many other little details and comments over the years: it all adds up.

It's a real shame, because I used to really like CCP and their ethos. They looked like a company I'd want to work for too. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now, though. Man, are they tainted. It's going to take a lot more than PR to turn things round.

I tend to see the main problem being one of a lack of competition. There is nothing to compete with Eve, and CCP have had little incentive to win over their customers. There's no incentive to trim the deadwood. They know that they have a large number of suckers willing to put up with almost anything and keep forking out for their overpriced subs month after month because there are precious few alternatives to Eve. And yes, I have voted with my feet for the most part. There was a time when I maintained my sub 'just because' even if I was barely logging in. That stopped once I started falling out of love with CCP. That stopped when I no longer felt like they deserved such blind support.

Meh. I feel like I'm done with MMOs as a concept, anyway. They are inferior games that don't stand repetition. It doesn't help that everyone is making the same game with a different skin over and over, either. :/ Maybe if someone did an Elite MMO, inspired by Eve though...

[Victoria Stecker]

I'm just going to throw this out there and see what people here think - I already saw what people in GD think, they don't like having the validity of their shitstorm questioned. Making rational arguments why the worst-case scenario isn't the likely one lead to a bunch of people telling me I was in denial. Anyhow...

What if we're all taking the newsletter more seriously than it was meant? They're having the internal debate over what to do and how far to go with MT - that means you have to have someone argue in favor of it, even if no one believes in it. So you tell a couple people, including CCP Soundwave, to put together an argument in favor of MT which they may or may not genuinely believe.

I mean, have you read it? It's so over-the-top that I actually laughed, assuming it was a troll. Even when it came out that it wasn't fake, I still have a hard time believing that anyone in that company would actually think that.

Now, addmittedly, they fucked up dealing with this - they thought it would blow over. Why? Because they realize that nothing in the newsletter was serious and mistakenly believed that the hysteria factory known as GD would figure that out.

The echo chamber had other ideas. A few dozen people yelling "I'm pissed off!" and several hundred yelling "ME TOO" means that the chance for cooler heads to prevail is fucked.

So, assuming that cooler heads are slightly more common here and hysteria-mongering isn't Backstage's bread and butter, I'd suggest that people just chill for a couple days. If it turns out that CCP is in fact determined to drive a bulldozer through the sandbox with MT, you won't lose anything by waiting for confirmation rather than jumping to conclusions.

[Casiella]

Honestly, if CCP came out and said that the newsletter was a joke that turned out less funny than they'd intende, they're not doing that stuff, no MTs beyond vanity stuff, then I would forgive them. We will see what happens today.