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[Bacchanalian]

What outcasts from Arzad?

The ones from Arzad

OHHH their fine. Their in good hands. Their being taken care of by Ardishapur.

They're*

[Saede Riordan]

What's exactly stopping you from being a proud tribal matari and a loyal Angel?

Pro-Republic & anti-slavery =/= Matari

Yes, they are the dominant themes for the moment in Matari RP, but if you look in deeper through the layers you come to realize those really are the current dominating themes. There's PF about the very fact that tribes and clans used to raid, kill and maim the shit out each other over petty squabbles. Hell, Angel Cartel majority ethnicity is Matari even if it's like the dark mirror universe version of the Federation and takes in every race.

Who's not to say there's much of the disenfranchised of the tribes building their own clans, following some obscure not so well known traditions. Fuck mainstream, write your own clan history and style. There's nothing stopping you. Just look at our worlds historical clan tribal culture, there was plenty of slavery going around. Matari are part based on Vikings, and shit girl, did they like their slaves, tho some preferred the term wife on some of them.

Nothing's stopping you from changing the Cartel inside out either, just start less grandiose themes. Instead of abolish cartel slave trade, start with humane treatment for slaves.

Possibilities are endless. Cartel is a diverse multifaceted entity after all. Not all people choose to be disenfranchised after all, but the Cartel gives them chance at new life that will take them places, sometimes it's places they don't want to go. Sure there are cruel cutthroats and bastards there but it's very much imprinted in the PF that is not all to it. To some it's new chance at life.

As long as there are people willing to buy people Cartel is going to sell them, it is only smart to keep the stock well treated and in good shape, that way other people are more inclined to buy what you are selling, just think of livestock trade. That said slave trade is hardly the whole of Cartel, it's a part of it but not one that defines it. It's just business that creates revenue  to fund other projects.

Look at it this way. Arch Angels manage to conduct a raid and acquire slaves. Dominations reward the Arch Angels for the job well done, slaves are handed over to the Salvation Angels who sell the stock at an open market. That profit made out of the slaves is funneled to fund the construction of a well stocked children's hospital on one of the industrial colonies in LJ-YSW.

Sure it is cruel from the perspective of the raided party, but those kids thank the Dominations for providing with a pretty gift card. New Eden is a very much a world of us against them. And if that slave trade provides for me and mine, why not do it? End justifies the means.

I would also like to play the Skarkon Card.

People of Skarkon preferred Angel rule over Republic. Just go dig the old news articles about them. Amidst chaos and turmoil, Angel Cartel brought peace and stability to that system.

That said sure there is cruel and unusual bastards who do bad shit for fun and profit and are just plain foul.

I dunno maybe that'll be some food for thought. What ever you do and decide in-character, someone will always hate you for it.

that's certainly a lot of food for thought Vince. That makes me sort of want to stay loyal to the cartel, the problem is that being loyal to the cartel means ostracizing myself from all of the matari RPers, who a large number of, I consider friends, and people I want to be able to hang out with and fly with. I think this would be less a big deal if I didn't feel quite so isolated from the rest of the cartel RPers. Naraka is very insular, I rarely if ever get to interact with any of you guys, in space, or in RP...I'm just really lonely.

[Casiella]

1/ Nothing wrong with RP and gameplay that doesn't focus on factional loyalty. And I tend to think that you can open more doors to interaction of various sorts that way. Certainly, that has worked out thusly for me.

2/ Any path can succeed if you stay on it long enough. This has been a weakness of mine as well, though I tend to focus on RP *themes* more than factions and so I've found my own way.

3/ If you have OOC problems with your friends then I wouldn't look at factional choices as the most likely cause.

[Vincent Pryce]

I consider friends, and people I want to be able to hang out with and fly with. I think this would be less a big deal if I didn't feel quite so isolated from the rest of the cartel RPers. Naraka is very insular, I rarely if ever get to interact with any of you guys, in space, or in RP...I'm just really lonely.

Well, it's hard to have your cake and eat it unless you find liberal matari to fly with. If you do you could agree to terms of when flying with them to shoot only their reds and targets. That means you can't really FC or Scout in that situation but everypony loves DPS. That said, liberal matari seem to be much harder to find than liberal Amarr, which is kinda funny.

And nothing's to say you can't have friends IC that are pro-republic and tribal matari. I've seen it happen, and I manage it too. It's just more of a challenge.

If you feel they ostracize you OOC for playign Angel IC, just take five, sit down with them and talk things over, it can usually solve a lot of the problems.

I've offered you a couple of times to take you and RIA on roams with us but you've never been in contact back with your guys and girls. As for RP, I can't speak for the whole of Naraka. but I don't consider my corporation to be all that insular. You could always drop a line and propose for a scene or a story arc, I've no problem in doing a scene for example discussing Nikita's current venture or her possible uncertainty about her decision IC. Feel free to poke me with a mail in-game.

[Matariki Rain]

That said, liberal matari seem to be much harder to find than liberal Amarr, which is kinda funny.

What you mean here by "liberal"?

[Vincent Pryce]

That said, liberal matari seem to be much harder to find than liberal Amarr, which is kinda funny.

What you mean here by "liberal"?

One that does not get anal retentive about factions and associations and can work together for a common goal or even just interact without throwing a tantrum or a hissyfit.

[BloodBird]

That said, liberal matari seem to be much harder to find than liberal Amarr, which is kinda funny.

What you mean here by "liberal"?

One that does not get anal retentive about factions and associations and can work together for a common goal or even just interact without throwing a tantrum or a hissyfit.

Sounds like... pretty much all of them, with a few exceptions, then.

Ofc, I've not played a pirate toon yet and might be out of the 'hissyfit over factions' loop:P

[Saede Riordan]

I consider friends, and people I want to be able to hang out with and fly with. I think this would be less a big deal if I didn't feel quite so isolated from the rest of the cartel RPers. Naraka is very insular, I rarely if ever get to interact with any of you guys, in space, or in RP...I'm just really lonely.

Well, it's hard to have your cake and eat it unless you find liberal matari to fly with. If you do you could agree to terms of when flying with them to shoot only their reds and targets. That means you can't really FC or Scout in that situation but everypony loves DPS. That said, liberal matari seem to be much harder to find than liberal Amarr, which is kinda funny.

yeah, if I could find liberal matari, I'd be happy and this wouldn't be an issue at all.

And nothing's to say you can't have friends IC that are pro-republic and tribal matari. I've seen it happen, and I manage it too. It's just more of a challenge.

Yeah, when they constantly slam you for supporting slavers, it gets tricky. 

If you feel they ostracize you OOC for playign Angel IC, just take five, sit down with them and talk things over, it can usually solve a lot of the problems.

nah, that doesn't happen.

I've offered you a couple of times to take you and RIA on roams with us but you've never been in contact back with your guys and girls. As for RP, I can't speak for the whole of Naraka. but I don't consider my corporation to be all that insular. You could always drop a line and propose for a scene or a story arc, I've no problem in doing a scene for example discussing Nikita's current venture or her possible uncertainty about her decision IC. Feel free to poke me with a mail in-game.

I think I'll probably take you up on that, maybe we'll get some interesting RP out of it.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I'd just like to add here (because Esna has been highly antagonistic to Nikita at times) that he could care less about her factional affiliations; he's had (and still has) friends who affiliate with the Cartel. While he isn't exactly overjoyed about it, he's a pragmatist when it comes to these matters and respects the fact that they're still good people in his view for these affiliations.

No, Esna's antagonism towards Nikita is entirely based on the fact that she's appeared to him to be a completely loose cannon with sadistic tendencies (which, given how you've described her at times, seems to be fairly accurate at least to me), who surrounds herself with similar people.



With regards to your inability to find tribal Matari to interact with: This may have to do with an impression I have that right now much of the Matari RP community is closely linked with pro-Republic organizations. Before I go any further, this is not a urdoinitwrong. There is nothing inherently "wrong" or "bad" about Matari RPers being in pro-Republic organizations. What this does set up, however, is a situation where many of the Matari RPers you're going to interact with are going to mirror the goals and positions of the Republic to a degree, and the Republic isn't terribly fond of the Cartel - a group which, for all her changes, Nikita seems to be still seeking an active alliance and cooperation with. If you want them to interact with you, you may have to provide them with a reason to regard you as anything else than a (somewhat more moral) Cartel associate.


Anyway, hope this gives you some ideas about how to find solutions to your problems.

[Invelious]

What outcasts from Arzad?

The ones from Arzad

OHHH their fine. Their in good hands. Their being taken care of by Ardishapur.

They're*

 

[Lyn Farel]

I think, what Vince said, mostly. Tribal + cartel loyalist is a good and very interesting RP orientation to consider. The main problem with the Matari RP entity is that there is not enough diversity to my taste (not a your doing it wrong either, we could state that for a lot of other factions). A lot of Matari RPers seem to choose by default the usual "DIE SLAVER DIE" coupled with "FOR THE REPUBLIC/FREEDOM", which is quite normal for a new player not yet experienced with the depths of the Eve lore. We eventually end to interact with copies after copies of the same character archetypes (again, what can be said for a lot of factions, for Amarr its always the common bigot). Which is not necessarily a bad thing. But when people tend to level everything into a standard, a norm, it gets fucking difficult to get out of that norm without being ostracized by it. People forming these entities having had something like a monopoly over a RP doctrine inside one faction get used to it, and when a new mindset emerges from nowhere, this new mindset is going to have rough times before being accepted.

Hell I know what I am talking about, mostly because I RPed in the Knighthood since the beginning of its foundation, and we had a lot of interesting conflicts with PIE and then VI for all the reasons listed above (and probably more I am not aware of). It is natural. Add to that I play a character who does not give a fuck about faction loyalties (except her own) and does not consider that serving the Amarr Empire / Ammatar Mandate is the only way to go for her (she has briefly done it with the Federation before, and she has always considered that becoming a Holder is a burden). It is harder to play, sure, because you always dance on a razor blade, and will have to carefully plan what you are doing and find solid excuses and justifications for everyone of your character's actions. But it is not impossible, and in fact, I find it to be a great source of RP occasions and possibilities. If you play it right, you might even collect the good sides of the "liberal RP" : my character is now speaking with federalists on fed channels, and even interacting with anti slavery mataris. Well, not the first one to do so, you might want to ask Ashar how the character handled so many RP relations at the same time.

You also have another example I find interesting for the cartel : from what i have understood so far, Literia (the character) joined them not because she likes the faction, but to protect people she loves from the Republic grasp. I know it is not the same for Nikita, but you get the idea.

Get out of the mainstream, create more diversity. I think you might still find one or two open liberal Matari RPers to interact with (I have found some so...). Main problem with the Matari RP mainstream is that if you do not actively fight against slavery with weapons, you are the enemy or at least not worth of associating with.


Edit for a sidenote : playing a redemption RP can be full of interesting stuff or surprises. You can find usually "anal retentive" and narrow-minded/radical/harsh/rude (<- pick your choice) characters suddenly becoming all confused and almost whining when something suddenly breaks in their mindset. They can become more malleable, they can also get gloomy or delusioned, or even manipulated while being in a full state of confusion.

[Saede Riordan]

Lyn brings up some very interesting points. That it was possible to RP a matari and not be pro-republic/and not anti-slavery never really came up. In fact, when I started RPing out this arc, the reason I ended up being pushed down the path I was, was this sentiment that seemed to be shared among all of the matari RPers I interacted with, that if I wasn't anti-slavery and pro-republic, that I couldn't really be matari, religiously or spiritually, and since that's always been the angle that Nikita followed spiritually, I was rather shoehorned down this road.

So, I see where I want to go from here though now, I want to remain mostly, (although possibly a bit more loosely pro cartel) while being religiously matari, and working on the goal of, changing the cartel from within. Not necessarily to be anti-slavery, but to be more stable, and supportive, and functional as a government, and to make Utopia green again.

The question is how to get there. because right now all the matari RPers I'm interacting with are still trying to tell Nikita ICly that what I've done so far 'isn't enough' and I need to condemn the angels completely and class them all entirely as monsters and scum, if I want to 'actually be matari.'
I think this presents all sorts of opportunities for interesting discussions ICly with other cartel players, and possibly a chance for more liberal matari people to come out of the woodwork. 

[Mizhara]

Well, I personally think it's a very fair viewpoint to not consider anyone who'd be part of an organization that severely harms the people of the Tribes to be even remotely Matari. Especially from the viewpoint of Matari lifestyles being heavily family > Clan > Tribe oriented. If you are part of an organization that on a regular basis enslaves people of the Tribes, then why shouldn't you be shunned? It makes less sense to me that people don't show their distaste towards such things.

I do hear a lot of 'Has to be pro-Republic' stuff though, and that's simply not true.

Miz for instance wants the entire Republic burned to the ground so the Matari can build something else. Something properly Matari without the taint of being based on a Gallente model. What you have to be, however, is pro-Matari. Understandably, from an IC perspective, that means to be pro-Tribes and if you're pro-Tribes you are pretty much by default not pro-Slavery or pro-Angels (who harm the Tribes on a regular basis for no better reason than profits).

This is why a lot of Matari RPers will be hostile towards Nikita. Making a token gesture about slavery becomes irrelevant while still affiliated with an organization that enslaves Matari on a regular basis, and committ other atrocities against the Matari people. And no, bringing up that planet that joined the Angels willingly doesn't earn any points. They're no more Matari than the Ammatar from many perspectives.

No one's saying 'urdoinitrong', but you really shouldn't be surprised or resentful if the majority of Matari RPers won't consider Nikita (Or Literia, or Syn and the others of that clan that harbors Angels) to be Matari. It's a very natural point of view.

[Saede Riordan]

yeah, its a perfectly valid angle Miz.

But its making it to the point where I just don't have fun RPwise anymore, since it means I can't play the character the way I want without being a total pariah.

At this point, I'm honestly thinking of just biomassing Nikita and leaving the game.

[Mizhara]

Love, Miz has been a pariah from day one. Even with her massive changes, that's not changing.
It's something a lot of people face, when they RP something that's not 'neutral' enough to hugglefuck everything and everyone in every channel.