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[Milo Caman]

We sell mods and ships in Heyd for 30%-120% above regional average when items 1-5 jumps away are cheaper, and thus far have made 4billion isk profit. The people who have the isk will spend it instead of going 1 jump to get a cheaper item if they can buy everything in the one station instead of jumping system to system.. even more so in lowsec. aka the lazy people with plump wallets, I am sure the ILF are making enough off I-RED pilots alone (I have to jump in 2-3 billion isk in mods just to keep up with needs.)

Two Things:

-Heydieles is not Placid.
-I am citing what I can actually see. If the ILF make a killing on private markets, fair enough, but they're not doing well in relation the rest of Placid on the open one.

Ninja Edit: Can we get a split for this? Feel like I'm derailing Jade's thread.

[John Revenent]

Two Things:

-Heydieles is not Placid.
-I am citing what I can actually see if the ILF make a killing on private markets, fair enough, but they're not doing well in relation the rest of Placid on the open one.

- Heyd was an example of how a market will react to inflated prices.
- They are not doing well based on your point of view fair enough.

[Jade Constantine]

@ Milo

I'm actually very comfortable with this discussion in my thread actually. Its exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see here, ideas and discussion on the future involvement in Placid and its already giving me some interesting thoughts ...

Please carry on.

[scagga]

1) I am a regular on the Placid Regional Market, you might shift huge amounts of ships and mods, but they shift significantly more slowly than anywhere else in the region. Who buys a Brutix for 25mISK when they can get one for 21mISK two jumps away? Heck, who buys a Brutix for 25mISK? Your market efficiency in relation to the rest of Placid is horrendous.

When you say a regular, do you mean you sell on the market or you buy from the market?

What matters is profit over time. 

If you make more profit (quantity) over a period of time for a similar time investment, then that is a superior option.  As Mr Revenent pointed out, it doesn't matter if it is less competitively priced - what matters is that there are people who will buy it where it is being offered in order to save time.

I don't feel raw local count is relevant. Give me a demographic and a breakdown of who's in local for how long and what they're actually doing, and you might have something. I regularly work the regional market in Placid and see no evidence of a 'thriving' Intaki market. perhaps our definitions of the word are different.

I suggest an analysis of regional sale volumes of a wide spectrum of products as a possible measure of market improvement.
For local count, if regularly repeated readings over time show a generally increasing trend, the information may have greater relevance.

[Milo Caman]

When you say a regular, do you mean you sell on the market or you buy from the market?

I buy and sell. I don't manufacture my own goods, but there's lots of ISK to be made through both long and short-term investment on a large scale in pretty much any region.

What matters is profit over time... ...order to save time.

Yes, that was my point. The volumes shifted over say- a month in Intaki are not what I would call a symptom of a 'thriving' local market.

I suggest an analysis of regional sale volumes of a wide spectrum of products as a possible measure of market improvement.
For local count, if regularly repeated readings over time show a generally increasing trend, the information may have greater relevance.

Would be up for a collaborative effort here. If anyone is interested in making this happen, PM me? I don't have the time to do it alone at the second. 

[Saxon Hawke]

Is the Intaki market thriving? To be honest its a matter of perspective and interpretation.

Here's my perspective YMMV: When I started playing (it'll be 5 years next month) I flew out to Intaki and got podded. Undaunted, I returned to see what was up with my "homeworld." There basically wasn't anything there but pirates.

The stations had practically zero economy. Aside from a few seeded items, there was nothing for sale in the system. If you wanted to buy anything in Placid you had to go Stacmon. And making the trip from Intaki to Stacmon and back was almost a suicide run due to gate camps in Ostingele.

It was then that I decided I wanted to do something about the situation. At that time there were basically two options: join Placid Reborn and wave the banner of the Federation while waiting patiently for the senate to remember us or joine INTAKI UNION and try to burn down everything in space.

I was pretty sure that there had to be a better way and founded the ILF. That was about 4.5 years ago now and I am very proud of what we've accomplished.Do we rival Jita? Hell no. I'll grant that we don't even rival the smallest of high sec trade hubs.

People say you need to back up your RP with your actions in space. Our tower is an example of that. It's a factory and produces the bulk of the ships and mods that we sell in Intaki. It's not something we made up to get "secret control points." It's there and you can go and see it. I mean, it's been attacked three times in the last year, so somebody sure the hell knows it there.

To be honest, I don't oversee the day to day operations of either the factory or the trade hub (I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to make it work) but I do see the spreadsheet and I've watched our wallet grow. We've made 5 times more money in the last year than we did in the first three years combined. And it continues to improve.

That's success to me.

[scagga]

People say you need to back up your RP with your actions in space. Our tower is an example of that. It's a factory and produces the bulk of the ships and mods that we sell in Intaki. It's not something we made up to get "secret control points." It's there and you can go and see it. I mean, it's been attacked three times in the last year, so somebody sure the hell knows it there.

To be honest, I don't oversee the day to day operations of either the factory or the trade hub (I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to make it work) but I do see the spreadsheet and I've watched our wallet grow. We've made 5 times more money in the last year than we did in the first three years combined. And it continues to improve.

That's success to me.

In my view it's an admirable effort that shows clear qualitative improvement.  However, for the observer, it may be beneficial to provide quantitative data too - i.e. what is your say, weekly or monthly sales volume? What is your gross weekly or monthly profit?  100m isk? 1b isk? More?  Those are figures that would be of much use for the observer.

[Bataav]

I found this information quite interesting with regards to trade throughout the cluster.

While it by no means offers the full picture it at least provides some insight into the current ISK value of live market orders available in various systems.

If we look at the Placid region we see Intaki is ranked eighth in the Placid region in order of "market offers value". It ranks fifth if you take away the highsec systems of Orvolle, Osmeden and Stacmon which I would expect to dominate the Placid market due to location and sec status.

What I find particularly interesting, in light of this discussion, is that the Agoze system doesn't appear in the rankings list at all. This surprises me because traffic data from Dotlan shows the amount of people passing through Agoze is so much higher than Intaki.

Whether this is due to the concerted efforts of groups like the IPI to proactively seed the market with products or not, I don't know, but I suppose the higher prices in Intaki would explain this to a point. Even so with the efforts of Moira in Agoze and the anecdotal evidence from Milo I'd have expected Agoze to appear somewhere on the list.

[Senn Typhos]

Would you mind clarifying what you mean here, Senn?

Man, being on the US time table sucks... everyone's already had a huge discussion by the time I wake up. T.T

To save you time and because don't nobody like walls of text, I'll try to bullet the problems:

+ No one agrees on what Intaki looks like. This could have been a simple issue of PR being spun in different ways, much like actual countries will be portrayed in different ways by allies, enemies, etc. The problem is that since Intaki isn't a real place, we can't ask a teenager to take some cell phone pictures to prove who's right. So instead, we're separated into two camps; the people who think a system with a 0.1 sec status, constant contention between militias, a heavy pirate presence, an uninhabitable equator and a clash of cultures would have a degree of economic difficulty, and those who think Intaki has no problems at all.

+ Everyone wants Intaki. If you take a quick head count of the groups fighting over Intaki, you'll probably be counting past your fingers. Again, this could have been a cool factor. The problem is that each of these groups has the potential to say that they have real influence in the system. Because CCP has no method for us to gauge control, other than the broken facwar system, we're once again back to the invisible magic of 100% IC events. This means that the richness of Intaki is relegated to all these parties just insisting that they're "winning."

+ People don't like effort. I will be the first to say that making a hub out of Agoze, even a small one, will be a show of the EVE RP player base's ability. My hope with Senn's IC address was to draw attention to the challenge that could come with attempting to turn a lowsec system into a real hub. But I'm fully aware that to defibrillate Intaki would take an immense effort, and most people will shy away from a monumental task that may be met with failure.


Now none of these problems puts an instant stake through the heart of Intaki-based RP.  I think that seeing the IC venom people are willing to spit over Intaki proves that it's a worthy battlefield for willing RPers. The thing that will kill Intaki, and the thing that will discourage people from throwing their hat into the ring, is complacency. Setting up a tower, winning one victory over an enemy militia, managing to sell one ship - these things are good singular events, but we shouldn't be satisfied with singular events.

So ANSH is digging in, and I sincerely hope someone else takes the opportunity as well. Of course if we could all avoid ridiculous claims of taking over the whole northern hemisphere of Intaki, destroying a station which is still there in-game, controlling an army of unwilling mind slaves (unless you're a toaster), or secretly deploying nuclear devices in Intaki Prime's crust to set off every volcanic outlet and destroy the planet... etc. That would be great too.

[scagga]

+ People don't like effort. I will be the first to say that making a hub out of Agoze, even a small one, will be a show of the EVE (People who care about Intaki) RP player base's ability. My hope with Senn's IC address was to draw attention to the challenge that could come with attempting to turn a lowsec system into a real hub. But I'm fully aware that to defibrillate Intaki would take an immense effort, and most people will shy away from a monumental task that may be met with failure.

Fixed that for you in bold.  I would think it misleading to suggest that the development of a hub in a place like intaki should be the concern of uninvolved factions, and should not be used as a measure of their 'ability' in trade.  The Amarr and Ammatar that I know have managed multiple trading operations that would dwarf this project in terms of complexity and effort.

[Senn Typhos]

+ People don't like effort. I will be the first to say that making a hub out of Agoze, even a small one, will be a show of the EVE (People who care about Intaki) RP player base's ability. My hope with Senn's IC address was to draw attention to the challenge that could come with attempting to turn a lowsec system into a real hub. But I'm fully aware that to defibrillate Intaki would take an immense effort, and most people will shy away from a monumental task that may be met with failure.

Fixed that for you in bold.  I would think it misleading to suggest that the development of a hub in a place like intaki should be the concern of uninvolved factions, and should not be used as a measure of their 'ability' in trade.  The Amarr and Ammatar that I know have managed multiple trading operations that would dwarf this project in terms of complexity and effort.

Would have thought that'd be obvious, but, yes, to clarify, you have to care about Intaki to care about it.

[Jade Constantine]

People say you need to back up your RP with your actions in space. Our tower is an example of that. It's a factory and produces the bulk of the ships and mods that we sell in Intaki. It's not something we made up to get "secret control points." It's there and you can go and see it. I mean, it's been attacked three times in the last year, so somebody sure the hell knows it there.

To be honest, I don't oversee the day to day operations of either the factory or the trade hub (I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to make it work) but I do see the spreadsheet and I've watched our wallet grow. We've made 5 times more money in the last year than we did in the first three years combined. And it continues to improve.

That's success to me.

And I for one really like your play here. When I first came to Intaki scouting 3 months ago and found that Starbase doing exactly what your RP propaganda said you were doing I felt quite rush for pride for a fellow RP'er in this game. It felt positive and actual and a place where RP touched the real server.

If that place gets hit by bad guys I can forsee us being alongside you defending it. And thats excellent development whichever way you look at it.

[Seriphyn]

You guys should shoot up Caldari militia that are trying to take Intaki (again). Heth dogs, fascist, invading Russian/Chinese people etc.

Also, farce that Intaki is even on the CONCORD map etc.

[Bataav]

+ Everyone wants Intaki. If you take a quick head count of the groups fighting over Intaki, you'll probably be counting past your fingers. Again, this could have been a cool factor. The problem is that each of these groups has the potential to say that they have real influence in the system. Because CCP has no method for us to gauge control, other than the broken facwar system, we're once again back to the invisible magic of 100% IC events. This means that the richness of Intaki is relegated to all these parties just insisting that they're "winning."

I recall CCP at Fanfest during the lowsec roundtable discussion suggesting some form of deployable "thing" that would indicate a system being somehow tied to a particular corporation or alliance. A formal declaration that the system is the operation theatre for the corp or alliance in question. There would be some actual ingame benefits to using one of these deployables and I suppose the closest thing they could be compared to would be the territorial claim units used to claim systems in nullsec.

+ People don't like effort. I will be the first to say that making a hub out of Agoze, even a small one, will be a show of the EVE (People who care about Intaki) RP player base's ability. My hope with Senn's IC address was to draw attention to the challenge that could come with attempting to turn a lowsec system into a real hub. But I'm fully aware that to defibrillate Intaki would take an immense effort, and most people will shy away from a monumental task that may be met with failure.

Fixed that for you in bold.  I would think it misleading to suggest that the development of a hub in a place like intaki should be the concern of uninvolved factions, and should not be used as a measure of their 'ability' in trade.  The Amarr and Ammatar that I know have managed multiple trading operations that would dwarf this project in terms of complexity and effort.

Would have thought that'd be obvious, but, yes, to clarify, you have to care about Intaki to care about it.

And I think here we have the real reason Intaki's market will outperform that of Agoze. It's Intaki.

[Jade Constantine]

+ Everyone wants Intaki. If you take a quick head count of the groups fighting over Intaki, you'll probably be counting past your fingers. Again, this could have been a cool factor. The problem is that each of these groups has the potential to say that they have real influence in the system. Because CCP has no method for us to gauge control, other than the broken facwar system, we're once again back to the invisible magic of 100% IC events. This means that the richness of Intaki is relegated to all these parties just insisting that they're "winning."

There is actually a simpler way to look at these things Senn. If you want to say that you have influence over intaki and X group does not then effectively slaughtering them in space and making it impossible for them to operate there is probably the way to go forwards. ILF have towers, I imagine I-RED will have towers, --- SF certainly has a share of these things elsewhere in Placid. Our campaign against Moira was considered successfully when we pushed them from Pelille and blew up their tower HQ. These things can happen in space.

Alternatively - you might plan economic assaults by trying to occupy all non-tower manufacturing slots and removing manufacturing towers. By gate-camping and blowing people up, hell even by wardeccing and fighting a war of domination everywhere.

I think its sometimes easy to overcomplicate these things. Thinking back on past SF campaigns there are times when we've clearly "won" (gained influence/driven out enemies) and have come to be the dominant force in an area ---> Mito, Stacmon,Amarr, Tama, Arzad, Kamela, etc etc, and times when things haven't gone so well and campaigns couldn't be considered successfully concluded. Often you just need to look at whether people are able to continue their ordinary affairs and chosen business in the debated system. IF (as in the case of Kamela for example - the 24th crusade went from having 30-50 active players round the clock in system and camping the station 24/7 to having a presence of 1-2 lonely cloakers 2 months later, you know you are having an impact).

Intaki is a fascinating area I think - but to impact ILF you'd need to blow up their tower. To impact I-RED you'd need to be significantly hurting their fleet capability or otherwise doing something serious in space. I'd say if (for example) a bunch of Amarrians arrived and wanted to put up a slave-processing plant then by establishing an Amarrian POS tower and naming their silos "intaki citizenry 1/2/3 they'd be providing the ideal in for RP interaction and some good fighting possibility also.

From SF's point of view at this point we want to get involved and to promote the agenda of free-space commerce amongst those invested with Intaki roleplay. How we do that is still open to question - but we've got resources to allocate, propaganda to do and no doubt more enemies to fight and I think its interesting already how many potential avenues are becoming apparent through discussions in this thread!