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Author Topic: Military branches  (Read 6878 times)

Seriphyn

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Military branches
« on: 09 Jun 2011, 11:32 »

As a military-o-phile, was curious as to the different branches of the various factions, and if some factions (mainly Gallente and Minmatar) have smaller militias? So...

Gallente
Federation Navy (largest, most essential branch)
Federation Marines (main power-projecting offensive ground force, similar doctrine to USMC)
Federation Army (main garrison force, responsible for peace-keeping, humanitarian relief, civil affairs etc. Idea of large civil side to Gallente military)
Federation Customs (similar to USCG, anti-piracy, anti-smuggler fleet force)
Federation Air Force? (my own idea, purely theoritical; a garrison force that controls air units, satellites, orbital units without infringing local sovereignty)

Would worlds of the Federation have their own paramilitaries? Or private companies that get contracted by local governments and thus resemble standing armies? The idea that since Gallenteans dislike Federal control, having a militia/paramilitary under their own authority curbs Villore influence (but can be supported be Air Force?). Sang Do overlords have their own armies, Intaki mentioned "planetary defence troops" and so on. Having a Federation Army presence on your world means direct meddling by central government, something that is disliked in a federal system.

Minmatar
Republic Fleet
Republic Infantry
Tribe militaries?

If the Republic have an Infantry (some courier item mentions it) as opposed to an Army, are the main tribes responsible for their own defence/garrison? (ie. like in the Starkman Milisia news article?). That news item mentions Brutor Tribe training and hardware? So, Minmatar Republic not used to a standing, professional military (Gallente idea), and instead rely on tribal warriors instead, that would come together during the days of the Minmatar Empire to face a threat?

Caldari
Caldari Navy (blitzkreig force. Strike, achieve objectives, withdraw)
Home Guard, Peace and Order Unit, Lai Dai Protection Service, Wiyrkomi Peace Corps, Internal Security, Spacelane Patrol, Ishukone Watch, Corporate Police Force
Caldari Army (underdog, same size as all eight corporate paramilitaries combined. Garrisons multi-corporate worlds?)

Masks of Authority makes it appear that the eight corporate security forces are not police per se, but standing militaries in their own right (perhaps originally styled as polices, in retrospect CCP might have changed their naming styles) and policework in these eight forces have the least amount of respect. Are there smaller PMCs that exist independently, or must exist as a subsidiary of the eight forces? Do the eight forces have subsidiaries? Are they considered a military like the Caldari Navy or a private military company (shares, corporate structure, etc.)

Amarr
Imperial Navy (sword of the Emperor's will, offensive force)
Imperial Army (shield of the Emperor's will, defensive force)
Major House militaries
Minor House militaries

A landmark description (forget which, I think in Kador region) mentions how the Kador House has taken a 'divide-and-conquer' approach to feudalism. Minor house forces fight amongst each other for territory, whether on individual planets or for systems? Minor houses own Genesis, Aridia, other regions without an Heir name?

Just throwing some questions out there. (also, reason I figured Feds would be the only one with an air force is because of a) anti-establishmentarianism and b) other factions have smaller, yet fully trained and professional bodies [in the sense they are NPC corps] to take care of atmospheric defence)
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Ken

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #1 on: 09 Jun 2011, 11:41 »

In a more general sci-fi sense, I think there are only two branches of military force that an interstellar civilization is likely to construct: one for operations within gravity wells and one for operations outside them.  The first is equivalent to most modern armies while the second approximates the strategic functions of modern navies and air forces.  The former conducts operations on a tactical level and occupies territory.  The latter operates on a strategic level and ensures the former gets where it needs to go and has support when it gets there.  Various smaller, specialized forces fill in the gaps.  I base my imagining of New Eden's various military forces on this assumption, despite whatever CCP has stated they put on the tin.
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Casiella

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #2 on: 09 Jun 2011, 12:03 »

It also depends on where you place clandestine services like the FIO and RSS.
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Saana

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #3 on: 09 Jun 2011, 12:29 »

We do know that by Amarr law, the Imperial Navy should be the only interstellar or even interplanetary navy in the Empire. In practice, of course, the Holders can find loopholes to this - for example, having only "personal" ships, or ships that are "not warships" (special mention goes to Ducia Foundry, which sends heavily armed expeditions to ninja mine in nullsec - this would be in direct conflict with the Emperor's will, but highly likely, in the books it is just a mining fleet - even if Ducia's fleets, pooled together, could possibly be used to take over weakly defended systems).

There likely isn't per se an Imperial Army as we'd understand an army of a state. Rather, local Holders have their own armies and security forces to keep the planets in line. Then there's the Imperial Navy's marines (including elite Amarrian counter-boarding teams) and security forces directly loyal to Royal Houses and the Emperor Family - as well as MIO's and the Chancellor's security staff. And Theology Council's security staff, who may not be as heavily armed, but the more dangerous. The Ministry of War coordinates the use of different units, and together, the more military part of these likely make up "the Imperial Army". (So while theoretically possible, no one is likely going to send IN CBTs into a meat grinder, that's what Kameiras are for.)

For Caldari, there may also be some specialization - for example, the Home Guard might be the most army-like of the corporate security forces. The Watch likes their hitech and special ops. Contact CPF for all your counterintelligence needs. Wiyrkomi Peace Corps specializes in making the other corpsec look good in comparison.
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Gottii

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #4 on: 09 Jun 2011, 12:48 »

Im not really sure the idea of the Minmatar military being a set of tribal based warriors rather than a standing army matches up with a lot of PF, in particular the Chronicle for the Valkear.  It seems the Republic military is a massive organization with enough bureaucracy to transfer and bury people within its ranks.  And it mentions that the heads of the Republic military are a council of Admirals and Generals, not tribal leaders (though its likely those Admirals and Generals are important members of their respective tribes).
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Seriphyn

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #5 on: 09 Jun 2011, 12:58 »

Im not really sure the idea of the Minmatar military being a set of tribal based warriors rather than a standing army matches up with a lot of PF, in particular the Chronicle for the Valkear.  It seems the Republic military is a massive organization with enough bureaucracy to transfer and bury people within its ranks.  And it mentions that the heads of the Republic military are a council of Admirals and Generals, not tribal leaders (though its likely those Admirals and Generals are important members of their respective tribes).

Perhaps I didn't clarify. Before the Republic, I meant to say that maybe the Minmatar were more historically inclined to tribal warriors. But as it was the Gallenteans that helped them out in training their military, then they may have adopted a standing outfit.
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2011, 12:59 by Seriphyn »
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Lydia Tishal

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #6 on: 09 Jun 2011, 13:02 »

Masks of Authority makes it appear that the eight corporate security forces are not police per se, but standing militaries in their own right (perhaps originally styled as polices, in retrospect CCP might have changed their naming styles) and policework in these eight forces have the least amount of respect.


I'm not certain how much of this is official and how much is player speculation, but the CPF has been cast as a bit of an exception to this.
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orange

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #7 on: 09 Jun 2011, 21:37 »

Caldari
Caldari Navy (blitzkreig force. Strike, achieve objectives, withdraw)
Home Guard, Peace and Order Unit, Lai Dai Protection Service, Wiyrkomi Peace Corps, Internal Security, Spacelane Patrol, Ishukone Watch, Corporate Police Force
Caldari Army (underdog, same size as all eight corporate paramilitaries combined. Garrisons multi-corporate worlds?)
Do you have a reference for the Caldari Army being the same size as the eight corporate security firms combined?

The State's foundation military organizations were largely Caldari PMCs providing security for corporate operations (likely both as Fed Navy contractors and as Non-Disclosure Agreement PMCs for those operations hidden from the Federation).
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Lydia Tishal

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #8 on: 09 Jun 2011, 22:03 »

From the Masks of Authority chronicle. . .

"Since the early days of the Caldari State, the eight corporate police forces of the Chief Executive Panel have played an important role in Caldari society. Figures of great public attention, reviled and worshiped in equal measure (often by the same person), these eight private militaries collectively match the official Caldari Army in numbers and far exceed it in training."
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orange

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #9 on: 09 Jun 2011, 22:55 »

Thanks.  I should have looked there.

Caldari
Caldari Navy (blitzkreig force. Strike, achieve objectives, withdraw)
Home Guard, Peace and Order Unit, Lai Dai Protection Service, Wiyrkomi Peace Corps, Internal Security, Spacelane Patrol, Ishukone Watch, Corporate Police Force
Caldari Army (underdog, same size as all eight corporate paramilitaries combined. Garrisons multi-corporate worlds?)

...
The State's foundation military organizations were largely Caldari PMCs providing security for corporate operations (likely both as Fed Navy contractors and as Non-Disclosure Agreement PMCs for those operations hidden from the Federation).

So, expanding a bit more.

The State is inherently a space-based entity.  The Caldari Navy defends the State's lanes of commerce (critical to a corporate State).

Ground forces, the Caldari Army, are an afterthought. They do not win interstellar wars, protect your merchant fleets, or enable you to project power beyond their ball of dirt and rock.

Quote from: Caldari Army, FanFic
While on paper the Caldari Army is the largest military entity in the State, its traditional operating size is much smaller than the larger megacorporate security firms.  Normally, the active Caldari Army consist of skeleton-manned command structures and a few units training on limited and outdated equipment.  The Caldari Army's strength is that in the event of a large scale invasion of the State, large numbers of able-bodied Caldari are immediately put into service depending on the importance of their day-job.  If the job does not involve production of critical war materials, then it is just as likely as not the individual is on the rolls of the Caldari Army.

Since the liberation of Caldari Prime, Caldari Army units have been involved in the continuing security effort on a rotating basis.  Units rotate to Caldari Prime for as long as a standard year to defend ancestral sites and supplement corporate security and Provist operations with raw manpower.

The idea is that the concept of the Caldari Army is much like the early (1780s to 1810) US Army; very small and focused on maintaining a basic officer and training corps.  In the case of invasion, the militias/reserves would be called up and equipped with "issued" weapons as available.  If the State is not in a large scale war, then the Army is relatively small and the bulk of its manpower is busy working in factories, tv studios, labs, ship crews, mining operations, etc.  When the State is invaded, they are called up and suddenly strategic worlds/stations are filled with armed men and women, likely defending caches of resupply for the Caldari Navy.

Quote
Masks of Authority makes it appear that the eight corporate security forces are not police per se, but standing militaries in their own right (perhaps originally styled as polices, in retrospect CCP might have changed their naming styles) and policework in these eight forces have the least amount of respect. Are there smaller PMCs that exist independently, or must exist as a subsidiary of the eight forces? Do the eight forces have subsidiaries? Are they considered a military like the Caldari Navy or a private military company (shares, corporate structure, etc.)
I think there are both independent PMCs, who likely specialize in niche markets, and subsidiaries to the eight which provide internal services they would otherwise have to contract out.

I think they are PMCs (wholly owned) and the Caldari Navy is somewhere between them and the Fed Navy.
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Nmaro Makari

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #10 on: 06 Jul 2011, 16:39 »

Minmatar
Republic Fleet
Republic Infantry
Tribe militaries?

If the Republic have an Infantry (some courier item mentions it) as opposed to an Army, are the main tribes responsible for their own defence/garrison? (ie. like in the Starkman Milisia news article?). That news item mentions Brutor Tribe training and hardware? So, Minmatar Republic not used to a standing, professional military (Gallente idea), and instead rely on tribal warriors instead, that would come together during the days of the Minmatar Empire to face a threat?


I would say that the Republic is simmilar to the State in this respect. Like each of the mega-corporations has a security wing, the tribes would likely keep a security force as well.

However, as of the Empyrean age (2 f***ing years ago!) the Thukker are the only tribe, republic or otherwise, capable of waging large scale conventional warfare. And even then they had help from some defectors in the Republic Fleet.

I would say that the Republic Fleet is the main, if not the only war-fighting machine in the Republic. Think about it in terms of extreme federalism, the Republic, acts on behalf of all the Tribes, but also keeps its own nose out of Tribe business.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #11 on: 06 Jul 2011, 17:14 »

I was thinking the Minmatar definitely have tribal paramilitaries and militias at all levels, down to clans too. In Afghanistan and other nations with a tribal presence, they have their militias, so...
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Chowda

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #12 on: 07 Jul 2011, 08:17 »

I'll go out on a limb and assume that since Heth took over, there have been some concessions made to draw off personnel and resources from the security units to the national army.   
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DrizzCat

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #13 on: 07 Jul 2011, 16:50 »

We do know that by Amarr law, the Imperial Navy should be the only interstellar or even interplanetary navy in the Empire. In practice, of course, the Holders can find loopholes to this - for example, having only "personal" ships, or ships that are "not warships" (special mention goes to Ducia Foundry, which sends heavily armed expeditions to ninja mine in nullsec - this would be in direct conflict with the Emperor's will, but highly likely, in the books it is just a mining fleet - even if Ducia's fleets, pooled together, could possibly be used to take over weakly defended systems).

What about the Holder that Tried to Spank that Gal System?  I would say that he had Quite the Sizable House Army.
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Arkady Sadik

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Re: Military branches
« Reply #14 on: 07 Jul 2011, 17:45 »

I hadn't heard of the Republic Infantry before. Apparently, it's mentioned in the Group of Haakar´s Striking Hawks item description. I think that's the only occurrence, right?

Quote from: Group of Haakar´s Striking Hawks
Haakar is a small, unassuming woman in her 40s who wields discipline like a whip. The men and women who follow her command - her Striking Hawks mercenary group - all served with or under her in the Republic Infantry's 203rd Tactical Recon before the company was made redundant by policy changes fifteen years ago. Haakar bears a grudge against bureaucracy for cutting short her career, but says her work now gives her professional satisfaction and an autonomy she enjoys.

I'm not sure I would read this as implying that the "Republic Infantry" is a full branch of the military, but ymmv.

Interesting to the general topic might be Valkears:

Quote
In the great war for liberation the Minmatar tribes, finding themselves lacking able-bodied men, were forced to create soldiers from their most dangerous criminals—their thieves, schemers, and murderers. This method proved remarkably successful and continues to this day. One would have to be mad to join in a Valkear unit's fifteen-year tour of duty, and among the criminal element, the rivers of madness run deep indeed.

You might also find my Republic Fleet Prime Fiction Collection useful.

Tribes definitely do have their own militaries. There was a nice story arc on Krusual militias starting some border skirmishes with the Ammatar a few years back, specifically mentioning the "Krusual militia".[1]

My personal playing assumes that, while the Republic Fleet obviously is the military, both RSS and RJD have combat forces. Though the RJD is more on the police level than military level. And I also consider the Tribal Liberation Force to be a militia in their own way, with a large number of non-capsuleer forces in addition to the capsuleer members. I do not have PF sources for those claims, though.

Edit: Also, there's a recurring mention of various mercenary units. I would assume that those play a heavy role in many smaller-scale conflicts. For the Republic, I think the Ani constellation has a few texts that might be of note, but I do not have those :-(
« Last Edit: 07 Jul 2011, 17:53 by Arkady Sadik »
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