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[Aria Jenneth]

So why was the bin laden family allowed to fly out of the states right after 911, and after all flights private and commercial were grounded and not able to leave?

Assuming this is true, my guess would be that the administration was sensitive to how dangerous it could potentially be to be named "Bin Laden" in the United States at that particular moment. One of them getting offed by an angry American would have been an amazing PR coup for Al Qaeda.

In general, Invelious, I don't buy into conspiracy theories, whether from the right or left. People are insufficiently omnicompetent to pull most of them off.

[Milo Caman]

Relief, but I find the way his death is being celebrated in some areas rather distasteful.

Calling bullshit that he died in the firefight though. Shot in the head at point blank range to avoid any kind of trial, no doubt.

[Aria Jenneth]

Relief, but I find the way his death is being celebrated in some areas rather distasteful.

Agreed. But then, there is a bit of a "Ding-dong, the witch is dead!" feel to the moment.

... and really, I can't blame New Yorkers, in particular.

Calling bullshit that he died in the firefight though. Shot in the head at point blank range to avoid any kind of trial, no doubt.

Maybe. Some more details have been coming out; seems a woman died trying to shield him, which seems to imply that 1) the firefight was maybe not so much a "fight" at that point, but 2) there was space between ObL and the shooter. Also, the mission was apparently a "kill mission"-- they were to take ObL alive only if he unambiguously surrendered. Otherwise, they were to shoot to kill.

So: looks like it was pretty much assassination with an "out" clause to avoid the risk of, say, an unnoticed webcam with a satellite feed or something broadcasting U.S. troops executing a prisoner in cold blood. "Unless the scene would work as an Al Qaeda recruiting tool, kill 'im."

In any case, it seems there were a couple survivors, so it's probably not just going to be a team of SEALS sharing some deep dark secret. And you can be sure there will be people trying to write books about this; we'll likely see the story poked and prodded from every possible angle by the time it's over.

[Jade Constantine]

On a related note, I got harangued in a pub this lunchtime by a student going on about how immensely disrespectful to islam was the fact that Bin Laden's body was given a sea burial and he started going off on one about how this "disrespect" would lead to many thousands being killed in reprisal attacks by true believers etc etc.

So I answered the guy in a fairly even tone and said ...

"not being funny mate, but if I had lost relatives in any of the guy's atrocities I think I'd generally be in favour of a funeral arrangement where his body was eaten by wild dogs."

Horrified silence.

Sometimes I think I'm not cut out for the modern politically-correct world

[Saede Riordan]

On a related note, I got harangued in a pub this lunchtime by a student going on about how immensely disrespectful to islam was the fact that Bin Laden's body was given a sea burial and he started going off on one about how this "disrespect" would lead to many thousands being killed in reprisal attacks by true believers etc etc.

So I answered the guy in a fairly even tone and said ...

"not being funny mate, but if I had lost relatives in any of the guy's atrocities I think I'd generally be in favour of a funeral arrangement where his body was eaten by wild dogs."

Horrified silence.

Sometimes I think I'm not cut out for the modern politically-correct world

I loled.

[Wanoah]

Sometimes I think I'm not cut out for the modern politically-correct world

You're not alone there. I'm pretty liberal or left-wing in the old parlance, but I'm routinely appalled at the degree to which this notion of political correctness is applied as a form of de facto censorship. There's something almost comic about the efforts people go to in order to not cause offence. The irony is that these very efforts are often patronising and offensive in themselves.

Besides, interesting as they are, I have yet to see any reasonable grounds for being respectful to any religion. Respect has to be earned. None of them qualify. That's not to say that I'm going to go out of my way to offend people at every opportunity; I'm just not going to take kindly to someone demanding respect for whatever stuff they happen to believe in.

[Senn Typhos]

Relief, but I find the way his death is being celebrated in some areas rather distasteful.

Calling bullshit that he died in the firefight though. Shot in the head at point blank range to avoid any kind of trial, no doubt.

I dunno how to feel, to be honest.

On the one hand, it's a little demoralizing to see a whole stadium full of people receive the news of someone's death, and start chanting "USA" like we just won a game. Being gleeful over taking a life isn't the behavior you'd expect from "liberators."

On the other hand, taking credit for the deaths of thousands of US civies via video tape and acting like a big shot - eh, that's a pretty straight road to getting shot in the head, thrown in a ditch and doused in gasoline in my book.

I'm torn, myself. Despite the toll its taken on our country and theirs, and the fact that we killed an unrelated, if equally fucked up dictator first, I will feel an inexplicable patriotic vindication if this news turns out to be true.

[Aria Jenneth]

I will feel an inexplicable patriotic vindication if this news turns out to be true.

For that, you are waiting on ... which authority?

The U.S. gov't. claims it was ObL, with DNA verification. No national authority I'm aware of, friend or foe, is claiming otherwise. The body has been dumped. For whatever reason (likely to avoid some kinda ugly spectacles), no photos have been released.

From the sounds of things, they're as certain as they can be; the administration has now staked its credibility on the truth of its claim. Unless you believe the conspiracy theorists, in which case I humbly submit that nothing will ever convince you, this looks to be as sure as it gets.

[Benjamin Shepherd]

Aria is correct, confirmation bias is the one of the main reasons conspiracy theories exist and Alex Jones / Glenn Beck can spout their nonsense. Conspiracy theorists "expect a significant event to have a significant cause".

Then there's the clinical issues involved with conspiracy theorists; they are more often undiagnosed with paranoia and schizophrenia.

[Ember Vykos]

So I answered the guy in a fairly even tone and said ...

"not being funny mate, but if I had lost relatives in any of the guy's atrocities I think I'd generally be in favour of a funeral arrangement where his body was eaten by wild dogs."

That is win.

Sometimes I think I'm not cut out for the modern politically-correct world

Nah. You're perfect for it.

[Ulphus]

From the sounds of things, they're as certain as they can be; the administration has now staked its credibility on the truth of its claim.

If OBL/UBL releases a video next week with him holding a picture of a paper with the "We got him" headline, the US credibility will be more damaged than when they couldn't find WMDs in Iraq... oh, wait...

But seriously, yes, if they're wrong about this, they'll look really stupid. So my bet is they were really careful about checking that they had, in fact, got him.

[Benjamin Shepherd]

They wouldn't hold an emergency announcement so late at night on a Sunday if they weren't sure, and the work that goes into both the operation and the logistics of everything is much more than we take in account.

[Orthic]

Relief, but I find the way his death is being celebrated in some areas rather distasteful.

Calling bullshit that he died in the firefight though. Shot in the head at point blank range to avoid any kind of trial, no doubt.

Keeping him alive would have been a nightmare. Number one, you'd have the entire world clamoring for his head. If you were to try him, you'd have half a dozen countries that wanted to execute him - which one gets the honor?

Number two, and more important, if you take him alive, you run the risk of every little extremist in the world holding an airliner hostage and demanding his release. Admittedly, there are likely to be retaliatory attacks, but those were going to happen no matter what. We've just skipped the attacks that would have occurred while he was still alive.

In terms of impact on al qaeda and company, it really doesn't seem like they have anyone able to take his place as the eloquent, articulate, charismatic, unifying leader. No one else has the stature or respect or skills to take his place, even in the limited role he has played lately. Does this mean that the 'war on terror' (fucking hate that phrase, wars against common rather than proper nouns usually go poorly) is over? Fuck no. Not even a little bit. But it's a huge step and it proves that we can actually find people... even if it takes us a lot longer than it should.

[Saede Riordan]

News media are saying that he used his wife as a human shield during the firefight.

If that's...then Goddess, what a dick.

[Senn Typhos]

I will feel an inexplicable patriotic vindication if this news turns out to be true.

For that, you are waiting on ... which authority?

The U.S. gov't. claims it was ObL, with DNA verification. No national authority I'm aware of, friend or foe, is claiming otherwise. The body has been dumped. For whatever reason (likely to avoid some kinda ugly spectacles), no photos have been released.

From the sounds of things, they're as certain as they can be; the administration has now staked its credibility on the truth of its claim. Unless you believe the conspiracy theorists, in which case I humbly submit that nothing will ever convince you, this looks to be as sure as it gets.

I'm waiting on "seeing is believing" authority.

I believed we had Saddam on visual evidence. When I see ObL on a slab, Guevara-style, I'll believe it.

I'm not saying I have some wild conspiracy theory that he ISN'T dead. I just prefer to see things with my own eyes, before I completely believe them. Call it paranoia.