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[Senn Typhos]

So, I've been toying around with the piercing/tattoo stuff for Senn. I'm still thoroughly considering the idea, because his character doesn't permit him to do something "for the hell of it," so I've been wondering about potential reasons and concrete purpose behind tattoos and other body mods.

That got me thinking about respective races and their corresponding feelings on body modification. I assume that the Matari already have plenty of reason behind their tattooing and piercings, but what about the other races? I'd like to leave that up to you lot, since I really don't know much about the Matari culture, and I can't speak on Amarrian or Gallentean thoughts on the subject either.

As for Caldari, the tattoos given to us are very modest, and they all consist of simple shapes. Two of the four designs, to me, look like bar codes, but that might be some kind of corporate satire on the part of the tattoo-ee. So what do fellow Caldari RPers or buffs think? Would modification be a basic freedom, or frowned upon by the society? Individualism isn't necessarily stifled, but perhaps its a given in the State that needless flash is something to shake your head at.

My other consideration, something I've already worked into my personal fiction, is the idea that the tattoo could serve a similar function it does with Yakuza in Japan, though in a different twist. Even the modest facial tattoos Caldari are allowed could be representative of a person's deviation from society, or a signal of loyalty to a gang. The Guristas, I imagine, would be fond of such a practice, giving a newcomer the chance to prove his early loyalties with a tattoo or piercing.

I'm interested to hear your opinions on all four races regarding the body mods. So talk freely if you have your own ideas to share.

[Mizhara]

For me, the Matari tattoos are for the very most part a roadmap of their heritage and status. Mizhara's tattoos are markings specific to her tribe, her clan and some that note personal achievements and history through kind of a pictographic language on her body. Of course, there's the voluval too, but no one sees that unless she takes off her clothes or pull up her shirt to show off her stomach. That's exceedingly rare. I definitely see some tattoos on Matari to be purely decorative in nature, offsetting some of the clan, tribe and family tattoos or framing them as it were, but Mizhara doesn't have any of those.

Piercings, I guess they may have a significance but Mizhara doesn't have any. I think if they have a distinct cultural 'message' to convey by the wearer, it's a slightly separate thing from the tattoos. I have never really devoted much thought to it, so I can't give you any idea on that for certain.

For the other cultures... I honestly have no clue except I think you pretty much hit the main spots on Caldari tattoo culture. My own Civire was career Navy before entering the capsule and has gathered some military specific tattoos from the outfits she served in and such, but they have all been modified to be 'crossed out' as it were. No facial tattoos or piercings on her.

[Saede Riordan]

In my head, I've always thought that Nikita's tattoos were likely a product of her culture, which there unfortunately isn't any PF so I had to piece a sort of rough idea together from context clues.

The cartel has a high matari minority, particularly matari outcasts, so markings considered negative in the republic, the sort that would have you denied employment and lead to you getting abandoned by your friends and family, might be worn as a badge of honor in Curse. They would likely have a lot of Matari and Gallentean tattoos that they would have lifted designs from, and sort of twisted. angel tattoos would still tell the history and achievements of the person in question, but if a normal, non-curse born matari were to look at them, they'd be shocked, appalled, and disgusted at it. Nikita has had a hard life, all the tattoos she's got all over her arms and back, she earned with blood.

[GoGo Yubari]

Tube children might have some serial numbers in them. Corporate/military satire is a good and a bit different thought, too. Maybe with job titles or salary numbers.. or tweaks on those ("Insecurity Officer"). Might be typical among the corporate rejects too (such as, but not limited to, the Guristas). Overall, I'd think the Caldari are pretty conservative in this regard and those tattoos might typically be utilitarian in fashion (like the suggested tube child serials or unit designations and the like).

[Jev North]

I'm definitely seeing the barcode-y designs as tube child or clone serial numbers, or maybe military or employee IDs of the more megalithic corporations. I could also see disaffected youth picking them up as a parody, or a statement about the lack of individuality in Caldari culture.

The other ones seem more cosmetic, but rather subdued aesthetically. It might be that the Caldari don't frown on the practice of tattooing so much as on exuberance; your epidermis is yours to do with as you please, so long as the end result looks subtle or refined instead of baroque.

I'm not really seeing piercings work on Caldari. On Guristas, though..

[Senn Typhos]

Damn, wish I'd thought of using the barcodes for tube kids earlier... that's a really good idea. XD

I'm liking these posts so far, very thoughtful input. As far as piercings go - again, with limited understanding of Matari culture - it could serve the same function as the earliest tattoos, as expressions of pain being endured and then aesthetically marked. With the aforementioned allegory to the Yakuza, Caldari might look at it in similar terms, in the same way irezumi tattoos are undergone to prove physical endurance. The difference being, the latter culture might begin to only associate piercing with criminals.

I can't think of many cultural reasons for the State to avoid body mods, since I don't think Cold Wind cares what one does to their skin before they die. Civire seem like they would cotton to ink and metal, but perhaps they would prefer natural scars to "fake" ones earned through body modification. Again, speculation.

Amarrians and Gallenteans... the latter can always just be attributed to freedom of expression, but the former, I have no clue. A theocratic man with wraparounds, lip rings and a big face tattoo seems weird. >>

[Hamish Grayson]

Tube children with serial numbers on their face is silly.  This isn’t 1940’s earth , this is the future.  I imagine that even every mom and pop corner shop has a retinal scanner and/ or voice and facial recognition software at the door that scans you and automatically purchases the most recent copy of your Egonics Inc. database file.

If the Mega’s still wanted to physically a tag on you, even though with Eve tech level there is no need, a RF ID tag injected under the skin would cost about the same, be invisible, harder to fake or modify, and allow them to track your location too.

Even if the Mega’s just up and decided that they had to use tattoos for tracking employees no matter how dumb it is, I’m sure they’d but it on the wrist and not the face.

Also, tube child is a Deteis only option but the Civire and Achura can have the tatoos.

The barcode thing is fashion, not function.

[Senn Typhos]

That's really assuming we all subscribe to the same view of tube children as you. There's really no singular definition of how the government orphanages are run, so you can't really determine whether or not a tattoo could be an insular use of identification or not.

In any case, what was brought up was the fact that the tattoos "look like" bar codes. Hence the aforementioned "corporate satire" brought up in the thread. So maybe this isn't a literal interpretation of tattooing with bar codes, as much as theorycrafting for the sake of it.

[Casiella]

As noted in the relevant Chronicle:

A Minmatar’s tattoos proclaim who he is, where he came from, what he does, where he has been and what he has experienced. They represent a Minmatar's identity as well as his story. A Minmatar without his markings is not considered a Minmatar at all. Such a one would be as alien to the Minmatar as a universe without God would be to the Amarr.

Interestingly, at the end, it notes about the Gallente:

The Gallente find the culture of tattoos somewhat barbaric and uncivilized, and early on tried to persuade their Minmatar neighbors to drop this old custom and embrace their future as a civilized nation. Their efforts to this end were initially met with polite denials and later with derision, but interestingly the Gallente youth now find the custom fascinating. Indeed, it is not uncommon to see young Gallente teenagers sporting tribal and gang motifs lifted from their Minmatar peers, symbols of whose true meaning they have little to no knowledge. This can evoke anything between high derision and outright hostility when those so inked encounter true Minmatar.

[Senn Typhos]

I do recall some guffawing about the Gallentean teenagers taking on Matari tribal tattoos. Weird though, that the Federation would frown upon tattooing considering their ethos as the "beacon of freedom" civilization.

In the same vein, it can't be overlooked that the Caldari were once part of the Federation. Would they have picked up the same distaste for tattoos as the older Federation generations I wonder? Maybe yet another reason for young dissenters in the State to wear ink and piercings.

[Esna Pitoojee]

It's worth noting that Amarr are noted as being masters of cybernetics (Holders' lives are extended into the centuries with them) and as such one might display some cybernetics as a sign to others that you are hot stuff and can afford to have life extension work done. Of course, knowing the intricate game of deception and subterfuge Holder warfare is said to be, one might also use cybernetics to mislead an enemy into believing you have a weakness when you don't. It's also worth noting that in one of the few good pictures of Emperor Hederian VII, he has prominent cybernetics, so they're definitely not averse to displaying them.

I also seem to remember something about Amarrians making themselves look older because they equate age with wisdom and knowledge; I can't say where I saw that, though.

FakeEdit: Senn, that's from the "Tattoos" chronicle. I remember this because my sig is from the Backstage thread on said chronicle.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

I also seem to remember something about Amarrians making themselves look older because they equate age with wisdom and knowledge; I can't say where I saw that, though.

About halfway down page 3 of Catch of the Day.

When you get into visible cybernetics, you amusingly open up the possibility of cybernetic fads, and people passing judgement on others based on the quality of their cybernetics. If so-and-so really wants to look like they're powerful, they'll have some really nice cybernetics. The sort of thing that only a truly vast amount of money can buy. The last thing a holder would want would be for someone to snicker at their cut rate cybernetics.

[Seriphyn]

Gallente tattoo habits were drawn primarily from the Mannar, and it was referred to as "face and body paints". I don't know why that Gallente reference exists in that chronicle, as their pre-carbon portraits had them just as tattooable as the Minnies. As for Caldari, I wouldn't be surprised if their culture dislikes tattoos. Just like RL, not everything is universally accepted

[Senn Typhos]

Gallente tattoo habits were drawn primarily from the Mannar, and it was referred to as "face and body paints". I don't know why that Gallente reference exists in that chronicle, as their pre-carbon portraits had them just as tattooable as the Minnies. As for Caldari, I wouldn't be surprised if their culture dislikes tattoos. Just like RL, not everything is universally accepted

Actually, that's an important caveat to the discussion. I should point out I'm simply speaking on cultural umbrella beliefs for the purposes of the thread. In this country, tattoos are becoming more accepted, but there are still groups that frown on the practice, groups that tout it as artwork, groups that associate it solely with criminals or ban it... and not just in this country alone, really.

Once again to the Japanese allegory (I know, matching the State and Japan, etc etc, but it has a purpose in this instance), the all-encompassing ban on tattoos wasn't repealed until the 1940s, and bathhouses still widely ban tattooed individuals, iirc. So, its difficult to be too specific.

For all intents and purposes, this is just a thread for discussing the nations' "general" views.

[Matariki Rain]

The Gallente find the culture of tattoos somewhat barbaric and uncivilized, and early on tried to persuade their Minmatar neighbors to drop this old custom and embrace their future as a civilized nation.

My take on this is that Gallente find the idea of (semi-?)permanent marking which shows -- and in part determines -- one's place in society to be alien, primitive and restrictive of individual freedoms. Freely-chosen body-art, however, seems to be right there as a Gallente form of self-expression, especially given that tattoos are now apparently easily removable. ("Since Minmatar technology is very advanced in this area, removal of a tattoo is extremely simple, with a pinpoint-precision surface laser wiping clear any unwanted area.")

Also from the "Tattoos" chron:

The Minmatar tattoo artists of today are forever seeking to regain the knowledge and skill that was lost to them when the Amarr, during their occupation of the Minmatar, issued an edict banning the practice. [....] During the millennium of enslavement, the Amarr all but eradicated the tattoo culture.

I've had some discussions lately about whether this meant that Amarr banned all tattooing, or only Minmatar tribal stuff. I'm currently inclining towards the edict actually banning tattooing, although that's just my preference.

I'd long assumed that tattooing wasn't part of Amarrian culture for Amarrians, for the same reasons the Old Testament bans it: it's associated with the ways "other" people have of worshipping other gods. I imagine Amarrian physical self-expression showing itself much more in clothing, jewellery and contributions to building works, rather than being written on the skin.