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[Seriphyn]

"A Matari wouldn't hack a door lock" appeared as such a glaring generalization, that I thought it would be obvious that it WAS a generalization, and a random example used for the sake of argument. The same way British people eat fish & chips, or Germans have nice cars.

Ironically, the current line of discussion in this thread has gone to what was brought up in the OP.

[KJLLV]

Mildly amusing reading the comments about lack of High-tech equipment in the Republic Fleet while shooting npcs with Rogue Drone information packets under the Republic's control.

[Isobel Mitar]

Personally, I think it would be good to have both unambiguity and ambiguity in the game source material.

I believe a basic set of unambiguous, true facts about the world setting is good for RP in the long term, to establish common ground. For example: "Ships have crew". I would also prefer it if this set of information was smallish (to keep it manageable), and set apart from the ambiguous stuff in a way that makes it clear these things are objectively true (and any character claiming otherwise is wrong).

Beyond the basic setting info, I would prefer most of the other background material to be in IC format, presented as more or less reliable and biased IC sources. History books, scientific articles, news, fiction and so on. Information our characters can have different interpretations of. "Of course an Amarr history text would claim we were savages when they came here! It is all propaganda. In reality..."

[Isobel Mitar]

Talking about confirmation bias, denial and selective interpretations in a different post.

We all have our ideas of how things are and to some degree interepret things to fit that mental model, it is part of being human. Some of us are more biased than others. Some of us are more aware of our biases than others. And some of us are more able to admit them and change when confronted with being wrong.

I believe no amount of source material, no matter how clearly it is presented, will ever remove such biases completely.

Ironically, the current line of discussion in this thread has gone to what was brought up in the OP.

Seriphyn,

May I suggest that if you wish to illustrate showing bias with examples, do not pick ones you know to be hot buttons with a particular audience, and in particular do not pick hot, controversial topics you yourself have just a bit before argued for? Choosing such as examples may unintentionally look like you are trying to push your own interpretation on others by disguising it into a discussion about something else.

I believe choosing more neutral examples would increase your chances of getting a good conversation about the actual topic going.

The above holds regardless of whether you think your interpretation is the right one. People can usually strongly disagree on one issue but still converse agreeably about another, as long as neither party drags the first issue into conversations about the second.

[Seriphyn]

The issue is that people are getting hostile and offended over a make believe nation. If you told me that the Federation has elements of a police state and showed me Taught Thoughts or Black eagles chronicles, well, that's that really

Neither would I get offended if one said the Caldari Navy is more advanced than the Federation one.

It's pretty clear that Minmatar tech (And ships for that matter) is highly effective and efficient. This is separate from "high tech" though. Take the AK-47, works, not exactly high-tech. Or the Type 22 frigates. Very good ships, but not high-tech either, and very old. Minmatar weapons don't have any electronic parts, another example, compared to the Gallente/Caldari's choice of plasma rifles. Doesn't mean the former is inferior just because it's not "high tech".

[Louella Dougans]

Only person I can think of right now that publicly mentions things that the Federation disapproves of, would be Seriphyn.

Everyone else sweeps it all under the carpets, because it's "inconvenient".

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

Neither would I get offended if one said the Caldari Navy is more advanced than the Federation one.

Seri,

You are attributing motives here when you assume people got offended because of the suggestion that the Republic Fleet might not have any access to high-tech or use it. They didn't. At least I got offended not by the statement itself, but by the way you dismissed any evidence and arguments to the contrary, repeatedly bringing up your view of it as fact in new threads and discussions, up to the point where you brought the evidence and arguments (misquoting them) up as an example of other people's confirmation biases, apparently completely dismissing the possibility that your inability to see it in any other way might be your bias.

Trying to pin that I am annoyed about it on me just being too attached to my faction and so getting upset if anyone says anything negative about it does not help the situation, especially considering that I do not think I have any OOC problems whatsoever admitting the faults of the Republic I actually believe are in the PF (lack of resources very severe compared to other nations, justifying terrorism with "a good cause", rampant racism and nationalism, the recent dismissing of democracy for "strong leaders" and "tribalism", just to mention a few). It is just further evidence of your biases: if people disagree with you, it must be because you are So Right That It Annoys Them.

"How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?" (The Bible, Mathhew 7:4) (No, I am not a Christian, but they have some good points.)

HTH, HAND.

[Senn Typhos]

Yes, strangely enough, it seems even people who speak out against biases are biased.

As much as I would appreciate "consolidated PF," I think its a moot point. For one thing, it's unrealistic for IC behavior to be reflected by more than the exesiting skeleton of what characters believe to be true. There's debate over historical fact to this day that could be attributed to personal belief, and in that respect, it's more realistic to expect everyone's interpretation of other nations to be different.

For another, I'm not ashamed to admit I haven't read every chronicle. There's kind of a lot, and not all of them are terribly interesting. I comb through them at my own pace, but if I can't get interested in the reading material, I'm going to probably skim it or pass it up. Certain pieces just don't have an affect or influence on my character, nor does it involve anything in my current RP circle. So while you might think I'm purposefully ignoring some mind-explodingly awesome mote of Federation history to better my opinion of my character vs. others, I might just not know of it in the first place.

For another, would it really change anyone's point of view if a consolidated "manual" was produced for the various nations? Considering the venom we spit at each other on a daily basis, it would get rationalized / altered / ignored, just as you claim current trends suggest.

So yeah. Biases exist, for various reasons. 

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Back in the day I used to play the tabletop RPG Runequest using the Gloranthan setting.

I was a bit of  die-hard Humakti there which might explain some of my anti-Blooder bias here.

Some of the background packs would describe one of the game's cultures by imagining a conversation between a young member of that culture and their priest/shaman. Essentially questions like:

• Who are we?
• Why are we here?
• Who are these other people?
• How are we supposed to behave?

I wonder if something similar might be useful for this setting?

[Bong-cha Jones]

Arnulf, that's a really good idea.  Fellow Gloranthan here, can't believe I didn't think of that.

[Vikarion]

I'm very biased, and I deny deny deny, and I admit it. If you are talking to me, IC or OOC, I will not, save for a few, rare occasions, admit the State has major flaws.

Why? Like I've said before, I'm out to crush those who oppose my faction, not give them ammo.

On the other hand, before you start yelling, I am at least honest enough to admit that.