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[Arista Shahni]

Suddenly, why Morwen sits on my head hatlike becomes much clearer

[Lyn Farel]

Probably because you have people that will get annoyed pretty fast by vitriolic and hyperactive hardline characters while other people will get annoyed at people being too quiet, which they see close enough to "doing nothing".

tl;dr : you will always have some people complaining about other people, no matter what.

[Dessau]

On the other hand, there is a corporation, that has an RP thing in space, where people can interact with it, but it isn't trumpeted from all corners on the IGS, so hardly anyone has heard about it. This would be an entirely in-character approach, given the nature of that corporation's RP.

And yet, the OOC channels accuse that corporation of "not doing anything in space".

This is a new concept for me, but I believe I tried to sidestep the issue of 'hat wearing' back when Dessau was hunting for Seneun. Des is always looking for new agents, people who have agendas and indicate their actions, typically through GalNet. In order to keep things IC, Des would read the IGS and made contact with more than a dozen individuals who displayed some measure of capability in helping him find Seneun.

The approach didn't work out. Des isn't going to create a public advert: "spies needed - lone wolf operative seeks evidence in corporate-sponsored murder plot - EVEmail me for details", and I'm not going to use OOC information to try to drive my small corner of the content spectrum.

Even given that failure on my part, I continue to use that approach as it's the only one I've found so far that fits the character.

[Ollie]

Resolve this conundrum.

It's a simple solution that works for me but other's mileage might vary:

It's a hobby and a game - something I spend time on to relax with. I play it however I want to and tend not to give a damn about what others might OOCly think of my playstyle or indeed me in general.

If I'm enjoying the experience I consider my sub money well spent. If others enjoy interacting with me that's great, but it's never a prime concern.

[Norrin Ellis]

People have already mentioned the main cause of this issue, so I won't dwell on the fact that telling people is pretty much the only way to put things out there in a game of textual RP.  I find it more interesting that anyone actually does tell other people in EVE about their schemes and plans.  Because the typical response of EVE players is to plot to ruin anything they can for other EVE players, it stands to reason that the only schemes one would share are the ones they intend to fail gloriously, in hopes of perhaps some news coverage or some such.  Anything that a player might want to actually turn out well would only be shared with a tiny handful of close friends (and even they tend to screw you over from time to time) or would simply be played out with alts as a one-man show.

[Elmund Egivand]

People have already mentioned the main cause of this issue, so I won't dwell on the fact that telling people is pretty much the only way to put things out there in a game of textual RP.  I find it more interesting that anyone actually does tell other people in EVE about their schemes and plans.  Because the typical response of EVE players is to plot to ruin anything they can for other EVE players, it stands to reason that the only schemes one would share are the ones they intend to fail gloriously, in hopes of perhaps some news coverage or some such.  Anything that a player might want to actually turn out well would only be shared with a tiny handful of close friends (and even they tend to screw you over from time to time) or would simply be played out with alts as a one-man show.

Elmund's RP is never anything grand. He faffs about in IGS OR he murder-death-kill someone in space, or at least try to. The MDK side he doesn't advertise.

[Silas Vitalia]

It's always been incredibly difficult in EVE to want a thing or event to happen dynamically vs the amount of people that need to know about the thing for it to actually happen at all.

One one end you have the more 'realistic' RP end of the spectrum; sharing little, dropping tiny, tiny hints about things, hoping people will take some RP bait and investigate of their own volition a bit more.


Unfortunately the pool of RPers is smaller and smaller, the time investment that sort of thing requires easily gets to be too much for other people, and your best laid plans end up stalling and going nowhere.


Then the other end of the spectrum, you basically have to shout from the highest mountaintop PLOT PLOT PLOT HERE. COME PARTICIPATE.  And even then your turnout or interest will be less than you had hoped.

[Aedre Lafisques]

I'm not sure how EVE's RP community handles things, but I've never had a problem with arranging things OOC.  The even best OOC laid RP plans can go awry once characters actually talk about it IC, so there's only so much meta game that ends up happening in the end beyond getting duders in a room together, which is the hardest part. Arranging this or that scene or event this ensures that people have each other to play with, and the 'game' of it is entirely in the way it plays out - rather than struggling to interest others by casual drops (which happens naturally too of course). Relying on only that though just makes it just that much harder to connect, to me, in an arena where that's already difficult. I don't think I've played with any of you. \o. o\??

To be more clear, to own a character that wishes to create content by being dastardly, (or more realistically, by being sociologically/morally unsound to another group) I don't really see a reason for the player himself not to go, "Hey, so, I don't know how you guys want to decide you heard about this, but my duder is up to some shenanigans you might not be entirely okay with today shh". (Rather than have said character announce his plan IC, which we can all agree is ridiculous unless you are Naupilus-the-mad which I suppose happens now and then, particularly with the eccentric Capsuleer population). Then, everybody can just decide things got leaked a certain way and show up -  as somebody pointed out,  no large, contestable plot doesn't have people who have to know about it, technicians jabbering and whatnot. We're talking about such large scales all the time that just about anything is possible when it comes to the small stuff.

One can argue that then, the chances of us hearing about it is just as scaled, but at some point we have to decide whether we want this content or not. I'll take a bit of fudging here and there to get a good scene in. There's already a certain level of fiction happening, so from here it's all as good as the RPers in the scene itself to create believeability.

I guess organizing things this way presupposes that people can handle OOC knowlege vs. IC knowlege, and that 'EVE is real' and then we coated it in a veneer of fiction for our further amusement and goal-making - but everybody here probably is likely already on that train.  I thought that's what the Backstage was for, initially - the organizing of getting RP together, and that's why I joined ; j. But there's history here, and I'm a newbro to the scene.  \ o.o / I know nothing, it's just my take.

[Jace]

Relying on only that though just makes it just that much harder to connect, to me, in an arena where that's already difficult. I don't think I've played with any of you. \o. o\??

In my experience, this is in large part due to the different factions not interacting frequently except periodic snark on the IGS. People have become a bit tired of the standard arguments, IC-hate, and so forth. They begin to avoid the other factions significantly. This is also encouraged these days by the increased IC ridicule of militia involvement. That was the primary instigator for interfaction discussion, but now that every argument has been had several times over and there is also an increasing group of people that consider the entire proxy war to be droll and banal it just makes it that much less likely for different factions to interact. They begin to veer towards doing their own thing.

Characters like DK also do not help the situation because every single public situation they show up to will turn into the exact same thing due to that sort of character saying and doing the exact same thing over and over and over and over.

And on top of it all, when there is so little World News to react to, it can stifle much faction interaction because there simply is not much to discuss or talk about. Go to the World News page and look at how many articles we are getting this year compared to last year. It does not help.

All of that said, I hope to see an increased Gallente presence on the IGS and elsewhere. It has been a relatively quiet (maybe we are just loud . . . >.>) faction for too long.

[Morwen Lagann]

This is also encouraged these days by the increased IC ridicule of militia involvement.¹ That was the primary instigator for interfaction discussion², but now that every argument has been had several times over and there is also an increasing group of people that consider the entire proxy war to be droll and banal it just makes it that much less likely for different factions to interact. They begin to veer towards doing their own thing.

1- This ridicule has been going on since the very first day that the Empyrean Age expansion launched. If it has increased over the years, this is only attributable to the near-total lack of development both gameplay- and lore-wise that has come out of it, which does nothing but serve to lend strength to the argument that participating in the proxy war is ultimately pointless. (Yes, one could argue that full-scale war between the empires would be orders of magnitude worse, but the empires themselves have a vested interest in either maintaining this "Pendulum War" or reverting to the earlier peacetime/cold-war status quo, and so this will likely never happen. Thus, FW will continue onward with its participants being little more than (un)witting pawns of the empires, making the masses happy that "something is being done about the <faction> menace!" whether or not it actually has any real, tangible effect outside of the restricted warfare zones.

2- Wrong, flat-out. The original instigator of interfaction discussion and interaction was groups of players acting for or against other groups of players outside of the FW framework. The addition of FW nearly killed off these interactions, because there was a sudden and massive wave of "if you're not in FW, you're not real loyalists!" being thrown at people. All despite the existence of cases of well-known player entities having wardecs that ran for multiple years continuously (PIE vs RE-AW: 2009/01/08 -> 2011/04/30 and PIE vs U'K: 2005/11/30 -> 2008/06/09, for example). FW also killed off a lot of intra-faction conflict because suddenly if you weren't flying in FW and being friendly with those people you had been rattling sabers or outright shooting at not even the day before you were doing it wrong, regardless of how justified your conflict was according to PF and prior events.

Characters like DK also do not help the situation because every single public situation they show up to will turn into the exact same thing due to that sort of character saying and doing the exact same thing over and over and over and over.

No disagreement here.

And on top of it all, when there is so little World News to react to, it can stifle much faction interaction because there simply is not much to discuss or talk about. Go to the World News page and look at how many articles we are getting this year compared to last year. It does not help.

There are reasons for this, none of them anything we can do about save, well, kicking up a fuss at the upper levels of CCP management and potentially looking like a bunch of whiny shitheels in the process. Just look at who's left the lore-related teams over the last couple of years, whether by firing/layoffs or by promotions or department transfer.

All of that said, I hope to see an increased Gallente presence on the IGS and elsewhere. It has been a relatively quiet (maybe we are just loud . . . >.>) faction for too long.

In all the time I've been playing EVE, "loud" is the last word I'd ever use to describe the Gallente roleplayers. (Except Seri.) Whether this is because all of their noisy times were before *I* started or because they were never noisy to begin with, I do not know. But it is ironic how much bitching there is about the Gallente when they're, well, even quieter than the Amarr.

[Jace]

1- This ridicule has been going on since the very first day that the Empyrean Age expansion launched. If it has increased over the years, this is only attributable to the near-total lack of development both gameplay- and lore-wise that has come out of it, which does nothing but serve to lend strength to the argument that participating in the proxy war is ultimately pointless. (Yes, one could argue that full-scale war between the empires would be orders of magnitude worse, but the empires themselves have a vested interest in either maintaining this "Pendulum War" or reverting to the earlier peacetime/cold-war status quo, and so this will likely never happen. Thus, FW will continue onward with its participants being little more than (un)witting pawns of the empires, making the masses happy that "something is being done about the <faction> menace!" whether or not it actually has any real, tangible effect outside of the restricted warfare zones.

Agreed.

2- Wrong, flat-out. The original instigator of interfaction discussion and interaction was groups of players acting for or against other groups of players outside of the FW framework. The addition of FW nearly killed off these interactions, because there was a sudden and massive wave of "if you're not in FW, you're not real loyalists!" being thrown at people. All despite the existence of cases of well-known player entities having wardecs that ran for multiple years continuously (PIE vs RE-AW: 2009/01/08 -> 2011/04/30 and PIE vs U'K: 2005/11/30 -> 2008/06/09, for example). FW also killed off a lot of intra-faction conflict because suddenly if you weren't flying in FW and being friendly with those people you had been rattling sabers or outright shooting at not even the day before you were doing it wrong, regardless of how justified your conflict was according to PF and prior events.

I should have qualified my statement in more recent terms. I agree with your assessment about what the consequences of FW were, but after that happened the increased ridicule of FW has helped kill off the remaining interaction the factions had through FW. I also agree that ridicule has plenty of justification.

In all the time I've been playing EVE, "loud" is the last word I'd ever use to describe the Gallente roleplayers. (Except Seri.) Whether this is because all of their noisy times were before *I* started or because they were never noisy to begin with, I do not know. But it is ironic how much bitching there is about the Gallente when they're, well, even quieter than the Amarr.

When I made my aside about 'us' being loud I meant the Caldari. Yes, the Gallente have typically been quiet. But it is not hard to be seen as quiet relative to the Caldari bloc in the past.

[Mizhara]

There were other Gallente RPers than Seri?

Huh, live and learn.

ETA: Ooooh! Oooh! There was Soter! Holy shit, there were two.

[Morwen Lagann]

I don't think whether you were referring to Caldari or Gallente matters much, Jace, if the Gallente aren't loud you aren't going to notice them if the Caldari are being loud anyway.

(And with how loud the Caldari have been of late? Wouldn't notice them even if Seri and Soter were going full tilt...)

[Jace]

I don't think whether you were referring to Caldari or Gallente matters much, Jace, if the Gallente aren't loud you aren't going to notice them if the Caldari are being loud anyway.

(And with how loud the Caldari have been of late? Wouldn't notice them even if Seri and Soter were going full tilt...)

Right, that was my point. I was sarcastically saying that we are loud as shit. You could combine Seri, Soter, and Jason Gallente and it would be a drop in a bucket amidst the glorious heiian screaming.

[Mizhara]

Are the Caldari all that loud though? I'm of course discounting DK here. If I give the Amarr side of things the same courtesy with Nappy, I still see more activity on that side of things than from the Caldari. On the IGS that is, what happens in game I have no sodding idea other than brief ten minute idling in some off-the-beaten-path channels during skillchanges.

ETA: Speaking of, Command Ships 5 today. Only three years too late.