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Author Topic: Firing a salvo  (Read 11845 times)

Julianus Soter

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #45 on: 07 Nov 2010, 18:45 »

Having the Intaki system, a system four jumps from my corporation's base of operations, secede from the Federation, would very much impact my character. Additionally, Moira. is blue with the IPI. Clarifications are needed to determine if cooperation would be cut off in this shift in IPI's public stance.

The shift in IPI's public stance is due to Alain Ocitrant's statement regarding his party's efforts to censure the Intaki Assembly after the liberation of the Intaki system from Caldari State control.

Now, if Soter can, in-character, show that Alain's party is a fraud and Saxon's fears are unfounded, then a split between the corporations can be avoided, and security in the Placid region can be enhanced further against a possible Sansha invasion.

Why on earth would my character not try to do this? Why would he passively let this spiral out of control?

My character's neck-deep in all of this. To say that I should steer him away from the thread and simply let it run its course seems to be a mockery of the past three years of roleplay i've tried to conduct.
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Vieve

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #46 on: 07 Nov 2010, 19:27 »

My character's neck-deep in all of this. To say that I should steer him away from the thread and simply let it run its course seems to be a mockery of the past three years of roleplay i've tried to conduct.

*snickers*  Speaking of that, DAMN YOU for Jules' comment about 'Mies Prime' and 'pastries'.
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Valdezi

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #47 on: 07 Nov 2010, 21:46 »

It would be a bit odd for me to compliment the amusing writing skills of an alt of mine.

Anyway, the debate has gone south a bit.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #48 on: 08 Nov 2010, 10:05 »

See, that reply there Soter is fair enough. You've specifically stated it's all 'in-character', and given reasons for the RPed replies on the IGS.

However, this is inconsistent with the OOC attitude that these parties "don't exist" and that "They r doin it wrong". If it was kept purely to what you have just stated, there wouldn't be an issue.
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #49 on: 08 Nov 2010, 10:45 »

So, what's wrong with an OOC attitude of adhearing to prime fiction? Could you perhaps clarify your accusations that my out of character views have no place in the roleplaying community discussion regarding ongoing roleplaying attempts?
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Seriphyn

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #50 on: 08 Nov 2010, 12:05 »

They are "out of place" because the said OOC views appear to be the equivalent of "ur doin it wrong", as has been perceived by multiple individuals in the previous posts in this thread.
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #51 on: 08 Nov 2010, 14:02 »

See, to my mind the issue is this:  If you don't like the conditions upon which the RP is based, don't participate in that bit of RP.  Either find or create something you are comfortable with and enjoy that.

When IC responses to draw attention to the divide in how we OOCly believe the EVE universe to be unfolding, that to me is the root of what makes these things immersion-breaking for people.  The playground belongs to everyone, its no big issue if some people want to play on the swings while others dangle from the monkey bars.  It shouldn't mean that later on you can't play together on the merry-go-round, as well.
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #52 on: 08 Nov 2010, 14:26 »

RP is about bringing people out of comfort zones. It's about argument, conflict, and the human conditions. Why should we try to censor such things in IGS debates? :P

I find it more humorous that people find it impossible to handle the fact that some will bring up in character opposition to their storylines.

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Jade Constantine

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #53 on: 08 Nov 2010, 16:28 »

Can very quickly devolve to simple bad-tempered OOC angst when "pushing out of the comfort zone" involves attempting to undermine the foundation of roleplaying in the first place.

Over our time in Eve I've had enemies occasionally attack SF on the grounds there is "no specific PF support" for the notion of anarchist freespacers in the background. Perhaps there is, perhaps there isn't, but its ultimately irrelevant to the enjoyment of our players - we say there is a place for us in the background and anybody who disagrees is likely to end up in our gunsights.

I think the issue here (and in this thread/igs) is people trying to claim dominant reigns over what is and isn't "valid rp" - and if the argument is expressed pseudo IC it can become quite toxic.

I'm reminded of the interaction between Seraphim and Soter over the execution thread where one presented a narrative tableu they wanted to be held accountable for and one appeared to say "that didn't happen."

Its a dangerous game because lots of things "don't really happen" that are required for roleplay suspension of disbelief in this gameworld. On the whole I prefer to let people play "lets pretend" a bit and get on with it.

It is very easy to pick apart any kind of assumed in-gameworld "authority" expressed through a capsuleer voice from agent standings to FW ranks to whatever roleplay association somebody wants to claim. But I think thats pretty negative play on the whole because rather than rolling with the claim and reacting in-game you're doing the equivilent of calling "time out" and calling a ref/gm to rule. Only problem is Eve is a LARP not a tabletop and nobody is going to provide that ruling. So you either find a way to co-exist without attacking the foundation of each other's roleplay or simply choose to ignore things that offend you on an ooc level.

By the by, I didn't mind these political tendency alts to be honest. I felt they were doing something new and not your run of the mill insult alts so definitely a step up.

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Julianus Soter

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #54 on: 08 Nov 2010, 17:41 »

That's the thing, though. A human being, ie, a capsuleer, that your player plays can do anything they want that is conceivably desirable for any human being. Freespace falls under this category.

This isn't about that.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #55 on: 09 Nov 2010, 01:49 »

Seri, you're saying that 'UR DOIN IT RONG' attitude is somehow unwanted.

People are entitled to their views on things, just the fact that someone criticizes someone elses validity as a canon authority they are mouth breathing drooling idiots that can't even profess their views in any other way than the simplest possible.

Only validity that these two week old political party leaders have is what the players give them, there is no mandatory set of rules that a roleplayer subscribes to when joining something as incoherent as the roleplaying community where they have to respect other peoples roleplay.

There is plenty of roleplayers going 'lol bloodsucking vampire wannabes' at all new blood raider roleplayers/
There is plenty of roleplayers going 'mindless drone borg wannabes' at all the Sansha roleplayers.
There is plenty of roleplayers that find furries in space disgusting and do whatever they can to troll them to hell and back.

Having no criticism in the community would turn EVE into galactica/stargate/furries in space.

If someone voices their opinion against certain kind of roleplay and wants to undermine a fictional persons authority (all characters are fictional) over himself there is nothing wrong with that.

Getting on a moral high horse of respecting other peoples roleplay is bullshit and you know it.

This is EVE, everyone hates everyone :D
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #56 on: 09 Nov 2010, 09:40 »

Can very quickly devolve to simple bad-tempered OOC angst when "pushing out of the comfort zone" involves attempting to undermine the foundation of roleplaying in the first place.

Over our time in Eve I've had enemies occasionally attack SF on the grounds there is "no specific PF support" for the notion of anarchist freespacers in the background. Perhaps there is, perhaps there isn't, but its ultimately irrelevant to the enjoyment of our players - we say there is a place for us in the background and anybody who disagrees is likely to end up in our gunsights.

I think the issue here (and in this thread/igs) is people trying to claim dominant reigns over what is and isn't "valid rp" - and if the argument is expressed pseudo IC it can become quite toxic.

I'm reminded of the interaction between Seraphim and Soter over the execution thread where one presented a narrative tableu they wanted to be held accountable for and one appeared to say "that didn't happen."

Its a dangerous game because lots of things "don't really happen" that are required for roleplay suspension of disbelief in this gameworld. On the whole I prefer to let people play "lets pretend" a bit and get on with it.

It is very easy to pick apart any kind of assumed in-gameworld "authority" expressed through a capsuleer voice from agent standings to FW ranks to whatever roleplay association somebody wants to claim. But I think thats pretty negative play on the whole because rather than rolling with the claim and reacting in-game you're doing the equivilent of calling "time out" and calling a ref/gm to rule. Only problem is Eve is a LARP not a tabletop and nobody is going to provide that ruling. So you either find a way to co-exist without attacking the foundation of each other's roleplay or simply choose to ignore things that offend you on an ooc level.

By the by, I didn't mind these political tendency alts to be honest. I felt they were doing something new and not your run of the mill insult alts so definitely a step up.


I'm gonna agree with Jade here because its really nicely word IMO.

Lallara, the problem with the "ur doing it rong" attacks are that, IC, you have no way to respond to them. And as Jade said, saying something didn't happen? well, a lot of things didn't happen.
My character doesn't really run a bar, there's no game mechanic or dev approval stamp for it.
My character doesn't really work for the angel cartel, there's no game mechanic or dev approval stamp for that.
My character doesn't really look the way I claim, because when I designed the character the first time around, it looked different.
My character doesn't really own slaves, because I have no reason to buy thousands of slaves off the market and there's no dev run process by which to declare yourself a slaver or a non-slaver.

RP is about playing pretend, and yes, occasionally, saying "this didn't happen" is a good way to acomplish this. But in the vast majority of cases, it all comes down to suspension of disbelief. People want to play in the sandbox, and when you say, "no this didn't happen, that isn't right" it kills RP, it kills it dead. Lets say back when I started my angel cartel corp, I had Myrhial, or Aria, (and not saying either of you would do this, but its for the sake of argument) kept adamantly saying "no, you're not cartel, no you're not cartel, your corp is a bunch of imposters, and you can't actually serve the cartel. How do I respond? ICly, my only response is "yeah, well you're wrong," but if a bit voice in the community says something, chances are, people will believe it.
If I don't agree with someone's RP, I'll talk to them privately, OOCly, or I won't interact with them. But attacking them in public, in character is a stupid thing to do, and it sets a dangerous precendent for denying anything, and it kills RP.

Basically, just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean you have the right to kill the RP over it. And sure, people do, but its a really fucking stupid attitude, and coming from one of the largest most visible figures in the RP community, its damaging.
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #57 on: 09 Nov 2010, 10:17 »

Having a bar is different than creating a Senator. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?
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Saxon Hawke

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #58 on: 09 Nov 2010, 11:09 »

Having a bar is different than creating a Senator. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

To my knowledge, no one has created a senator. The characters in question are party committee chairs, not elected officials. They are claiming to be members of Federation political parties in the same way that Nikita claims to work for the Angel Cartel and others claim to be a part of Sansha's Nation.
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Casiella

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Re: Firing a salvo
« Reply #59 on: 09 Nov 2010, 11:31 »

Soter, is it your contention that nobody should create characters that belong to political parties since there is no in-game representation of such parties?
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