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[Seriphyn]

Even if there wasn't much of a player alliance going on, the Republic and the Federation are two close allies, given the ideological overlaps (anti-slavery, freedom blahblah)...though relationship was described as 'strained' by Roden's campaign, he promises to restore it, and Shakor seems receptive, calling a "threat to either nation a threat to both". The two also maintain a very close military relationship with joint ops and an officer exchange program.

One MASSIVE thing I do wonder is this...

Why don't the Minmatar possess the same level of technology as the Gallente? Why do they still use projectiles and not hybrids? Why don't they use crystalline carbonide instead? The obvious answer was the design choice to have each of the four main factions unique, but I would think "Why not"? If the Gallente helped establish their military it's a wonder why the Republic Fleet "doesn't have access to the hi-tech equipment of the other empires". There any detailed PF about the establishment of the Republic with the oversight of the Federation or something?

Secondly, anyone noticed the slight downplaying of Fed/Minnie relations recently? I'd like to see it revived to be honest. Fed is still likely a third Minnie; third Minnie at start of EVE, then sudden 'mass exodus', then revival of tribal system, a 'decrease in migration from Republic', meaning it's still probably around about a third.

[Arvo Katsuya]

A revolutionary ceramic carbide compound, much favored by the Matari both for its earthy quality and its extremely wide range of technological uses.

The Matari can't have their own 'aesthetic' of their own to reflect their own culture?

Reminder on how they feel of their culture through their tattoos, is very much like the Caldari (and *gasp* even Nation). It must be preserved and defended no matter the cost, or else someone like the Gallente or Amarr will come to either encroach upon it, or remove it entirely. Because those two empires have a superiority complex that their culture should be molded into everyone else's standards.

The comment Esna has me quoted on also has to do with it.

[hellgremlin]

Tech 4 - dual race vessels. Amarr and Caldari start collaborating in order to get in on Sansha's laser/shield goodness, and the Khanids' missile/armor combo.

The Gallente and Minmatar counter with rusty cocks.

[Ken]

I imagine the "tech gap" (which doesn't carry over to what we see in game since rust buckets > all others) could be explained because the Minmatar are proud and "want to do it themselves, but thanks for the tips" and/or there's something to be said for older more reliable technologies even in a far future sci-fi setting.  One of the few moments in Empyrean Age that really impressed me was the note about how some extremist unit or another was using Minmatar small arms because, having no electronics, they were unaffected by EMP.  There is a reason the US Air Force still flies the C-130 and A-10.  They do the jobs they were made to do very well and the requirements of those jobs haven't really changed.  Who needs high tech at ten times the price when low tech does the trick?

[Seriphyn]

A quote from TEA was "The Gallenteans are eager to coach the Minmatars without stepping on their pride", so yeah, I think Minmatar went so far as to accept military and academic training, but other than that...free reign.

Can't remember the extremists, but yeah Ken, the Fed military/police on Caldari Prime in time of invasion switched to Minmatar weapons as they had no electronic parts due to State EMP strikes.

[Arvo Katsuya]

The Gallente and Minmatar counter with rusty cocks.

[00:14:56] Arvo Katsuya > I lol'd at Istvaan's comment on the thread.
[00:16:59] Ghost Hunter > a disturbing thought
[00:17:00] Ghost Hunter > that one
[00:17:17] Ghost Hunter > but isn't that what a stabber is? >__>

The Stabber is the mainstay of the Minmatar fleet. It is light and extremely fast, yet surprisingly powerful, with a wide variety of weapons. It is one of few Minmatar vessels that have reached popularity outside Minmatar space.

[Hamish Grayson]

A quote from TEA was "The Gallenteans are eager to coach the Minmatars without stepping on their pride",

I like the casually arrogant assumption that the Gallenteans have some wisdom to impart to their child like brethren but they are patient enough to let them come to this enlightenment at their own pace.

[Alain Colcer]

Interesting, i always though the Federation gave Minmatar tribal leaders and engineer the knowledge to build better engine cores, fusion reactors, power conduits and the sort. But they could not and did not want to supply the "shortage" of materials and manpower the Minmatar had at the time of the rebellion. They could only do little without actually incorporating the entire Minmatar tribes into the Federation, an attempt that i am sure was tried but the tribal leaders dismissed rapidly.

So in my view, Minmatar developed their own style in space ship design because it was what they got at the time, ie: "hey we got gallente power cores, but we still lack proper power distribution throught the ship frame in order to support energy based weaponry, to hell with that, punching people with big sticks still work in space so lets use that instead and just worry about going in and out fast!".

It became natural, so to speak, that lighter frames at cheaper prices and less demanding technology was what the Minmatar brought forward as the solution the moment they broke free.

At least it makes sense.

[Zag]

High-tech means high maintenance and the attendant logistics requirement of ensuring equipment and materiel is maintained and provisioned. The Federation is able to utilize the vessels and equipment it has because it has the logistic and industrial infrastructure to support and supply them. The Federation, much like the State also appears to place a premium on developing technologies to act as force multipliers (particularly drones in the case of the Federation) so as to achieve maximum effect with minimal outlay in personnel (and casualties). The emphasis placed on the Federation attempting to maintain above-parity or in the least parity in regards to military technology versus the State can be seen in the fact that Federal defense corporations such as Roden Shipyards, Duvolle Laboratories and CreoDron which operate at nearly the same scale as State Megas can be significantly financed by the Federal defense budget (discounting capsuleers).

When at peace, the Federation can count on its technological advancements to make up for disparities in the size of its standing military force. Usage of drones particularly means that the Federation can maintain a smaller fleet and also have a slimmer defense budget. This would be important if you were say, a certain Progressive President who wanted to make defense cutbacks in order to fund economic initiatives and also assure the public that the Federation was still adequately protected. In fact, I think modern Federal defense planning was to use drones and other automated defensive and intelligence gathering networks to absorb initial attacks with actual Fleet assets held as reserves/rapid reaction forces. This would be until there could be a switch to a proper war economy and an expansion proper of the Federal military. Of course, if you are a certain Progressive President wanting a switch to a nationalized war economy it's probably a good idea to chat with the leaders of the Federal Military-Industrial complex beforehand. There could be a coup.

Comparatively, the Republic military in all likelihood knows it has little chance of containing any actual initial incursion by the Imperial Navy into the Republic. The plan may be to have the military of the Republic act as a guerrilla force instead of a conventional military in the event of (full-scale) war with the Amarr Empire. It's not say the Minmatar are incapable of developing advanced technologies but rather that the Republic military would want equipment that fulfills the requirements of a guerrilla: proven reliability, ease of maintenance, simplicity and effectiveness. Minmatar vessels appear to be built with those points in mind.

The weaponry and equipment is simple but reliable and also effective; it also would not require someone with a PhD to repair. The ships themselves appear to be lightweight with a focus on shielding that cuts down on materiel requirements both for construction and also maintenance. Vessels and ammunition could also be constructed and repaired locally at ad-hoc shipyards in territories the Republic would still control - Fernite Carbide appears to be some derivative of steel so it should be easy to produce and supply. It all combines to allow the Republic Fleet, if required, to operate as detached and independent guerrilla units in the event of an Imperial invasion. Since the necessary military infrastructure and logistic needs are minimal it would permit the Republic to continue fighting a war against the Amarr even with large amounts of territory occupied.

As for the current relations between the Republic and Federation I've put that down to actual politics currently in play in the Republic. There appears to be a rise in patriotism and national sentiments in the Republic due to the rediscovery of the Starkmanir combined with a seeming lessening of the power exerted by the Parliament. There seems to be a push away from a representative democracy to an actual tribal system. It all looks quite convoluted with Shakor attempting to maintain the integrity of the Republic in the face of all that nationalism and tribal tensions. That, and perhaps there is a perception held by some in the Republic that the Federation is an obstacle to the goal of maintaining the ethnic and cultural heritage of the Minmatar?

[Ulphus]

One MASSIVE thing I do wonder is this...

Why don't the Minmatar possess the same level of technology as the Gallente? Why do they still use projectiles and not hybrids? Why don't they use crystalline carbonide instead? The obvious answer was the design choice to have each of the four main factions unique, but I would think "Why not"? If the Gallente helped establish their military it's a wonder why the Republic Fleet "doesn't have access to the hi-tech equipment of the other empires".

Well, my first reaction is that projectiles are actually superior to hybrids, for a number of reasons which are partly parochialism and partly assumptions about the technology*. In game, the requirements for Cap etc are such that there are good reasons to choose projectiles over hybrids in at least some situations. (Those blasted Amarrians with their neuts.)

Also, IRL there are tradeoffs in manufacturing requirements vs reliability of the final product, or supply chain requirements. Simplicity of manufacture for an item of comparable performance would be very attractive for the Matari, since they're still recovering their industrial base.

Also, the Gallente hulls aren't that attractive really. I have only one Gallente hull in my hangars, and though I could easily have more,  *shrug* who wants to fly a giant potato, the Megathron is obviously based on the rifter, and after all, Tempest is best pest.

If you asked really nicely, maybe the Matari would let the Federation have some of the Matari advanced technology?







*for instance, I figure modern firearm performance is not significantly dependent on propellent, but rather the aerodynamic properties of the projectile in an atmosphere, something that I think would not be solved by using magnetic accelleration to deliver the round. Also, in an environment with a reasonable amount of electronic sensors, using a gauss gun is going to deliver a huge magnetic anomaly spike every time you fire a round. I bet they'd have MAD homing mortar rounds most places you weren't facing an assymetric war, so using a hybrid rifle is going be like holding a neon sign up saying "shoot here". Mind you, chemically propelled projectile weapons are delivering muzzle flash and noise, but these are problems we already have solutions for.

[Matariki Rain]

Just a comment that I'd had such hopes when I saw the thread title... and then it turned out to be about weapons tech. 

<character-opinion>
There may be too much Amarrian in Matari bloodlines, but there's too much Gallente in Matari culture and politics, including an ongoing authenticity debate about the use of Gallente-gathered ethnographical sources about "traditional" Matari life in the rebuilding after the rebellion.
</character-opinion>

[Casiella]

Just a comment that I'd had such hopes when I saw the thread title... and then it turned out to be about weapons tech. 

It doesn't have to be, particularly considering that last bit of question in the OP.

[lallara zhuul]

You're making it a bit too complicated.

Minnies are a colony of the Federation.

They treat it as such.

[Merdaneth]

Selling high-tech hardware is one thing, allowing your partner access to your research programs so that they can develop it themselves is another thing entirely.

Close allies in our world still keep most of their military research strictly separate, even though they sell (often not the very latest versions) hardware to their allies.

Also, Minmatar technology has developed one of the staple Amarr EW modules: the tracking disruptor.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

I am not sure the PF completely supports the idea that Minmatar tech is inferior to Gallentean. It is different, and I believe it is mentioned that the Minmatar prefer "lower tech" solutions that are not as complicated, and can be maintained by using old spare parts and whatnot. That does not necessary mean that the technology is inferior, however; it might simply be a preference on what to prioritize.

As an example from real life: in various parts of Africa old models of jeeps and other cars are preferred to modern computerized such, not just because they are cheaper, but because they tolerate sand and dust better, and in the case of a breakdown they are easier to maintain. I would not say that a "purely mechanical" car is "inferior" tech compared to a computerized "modern" one, though. It is older tech, but it is a more suitable (superior) solution to the conditions where tolerance to environment and easy maintainability is more important than fancy features.

The Minmatar (probably partly cultural) preference for "lower tech" solutions could be simply a result from their experiences where they have to maintain what they got with what they got, and as a result of not having the resources of other nations after the independence - not because they do not as such have access to or understanding of higher-tech.

Somewhat related, the perception that the Minmatar were savages and "primitive tribes" without much technology before the Amarr invaded, and that all that they got for tech was invented by others, is also wrong:

The fortunes of the Minmatars have ebbed and flowed continuously. At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere.

http://www.eveonline.com/races/minmatar.asp (emphasis mine)

The Minmatar have always been a spacefaring race on their own right, and once they started, it took the Amarr over a hundred years to conquer them:

AD 20374
    * (Approx) Minmatar tribes amalgamate, forming a planetary culture
AD 21413
    * The first Minmatar space ship is built. During the next centuries, the Minmatar settle on a number of planets and moons in three systems, using ancient star gates
AD 22355
    * First contact between the Amarr and the Minmatar. Amarr immediately raid the Minmatar nation for slaves, an activity they will continue for 125 years
 

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Timeline

(Though I am not convinced that hybrids are any "better tech" than projectiles in space. Gameplay surely does not suggest that. But that's sort of beside the point.)