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[Valdezi]

Last night I was repping a POS in Syndicate, when a Rote Kappelle gang warped in. Before getting my ass back behind the shields I noted Bacchanalian among them.

And I wondered.

Would I, as a roleplayer get more or less satisfaction out of shooting him?

Now for the most part, my daily targets, those people I generally fight with are low sec and null sec pirate corps. Very rarely do I find myself firing at other role players.

What I would ask is, do the  kills on RPers that you might get 'count' more for you, OOC? Do you feel more satisfied when you pop Seriphyn as opposed to Yrmum98? (To pluck two names entirely from the air.)

Or, does respect for other roleplayers because of how they play the game make you feel as if you'd much prefer shooting Kangaroos with Frickin Laserbeams or some such.

Thoughts?

[Vikarion]

I've always been rather more focused on the "shooting" part than the identity of the person being shot.   

Former corpmates of mine can attest to this. Honestly, in terms of "beating" anyone, I'd get far more satisfaction out of destroying a good PvPer than an opposed RPer.

Of course, if I do wipe the floor with a member of an opposing faction, I'll happily wave it in their RP face to see if I can get some RP tears, but that's just extra entertainment, not malice or motivation to attack them specifically.

If anything would cause me to hunt someone, it's the prospect of getting "rage" from them. I honestly find it hilarious that anyone could get angry enough over a fictional setting/actions to become upset with someone else.

[Bacchanalian]

Some of the best and most memorable fights I've had in EVE were as an RP with RPers, but generally because RPers fight differently in a sense.

Two sweeping generalizations about RPers that I find to be mostly true, but will rub some people the wrong way.

1) In general, RPers don't like actually fighting in space all that much with other RP entities--it's harder to control the "story" so to speak, and invariably one side finds itself at a very lopsided in-space disadvantage be it due to numbers, skill, resources, what-have-you, when "IC" no such disadvantage or no reason for said disadvantage exists.  And many RP entities aren't primarily PvP entities, despite their RP, and as such tend to get kicked around by more PvP-centric entities, be they RP or not.

2) When RPers do fight, contrary to what one might think, it's generally not a purse fight.  In my experience fighting RPers with SF and later STIM, when an RP group decides to fight they fight until their last man (incidentally, this tends to end with their group ground to dust in cases where they are at a disadvantage, and this contributes back to #1).  Aegis Militia was that way when we fought them as SF--no matter that they lost just about every fight we had with them, they kept coming back every night for another fight.  Same can be said for Acheron when we fought them as STIM.  I think they mustered less than 5 kills on us in the war we fought against them, but they came out swinging all the time.  And some of the best fights to the death were RP-related.  CVA vs UK+SF in Amarr comes to mind.  I feel like it was 30-50 vs 30-50, mostly BS, and it was straight-up a slugfest that went until one side had nothing left on the field.  Both sides had something to prove, and left it all on the field rather than running when things looked like they weren't going to go their way.  

That said, those generalizations are based on my experience fighting RPers as a member of SF and later STIM, and may not reflect the experiences of most.  And many RP entities don't fit that mold.  Many of them are indistinguishable from your typical napfest nullsec alliances (no offense Mammal, but you guys are in that category with your NCBFF affiliations and previous Proviblob affiliations).  I don't even count those as RPers from a PvP perspective, because no matter what you do to try and engage them in a strictly RP fight (ie, RP entity vs RP entity), they fall back on their allies and space.

Again, all sweeping generalizations, but I find for the most part that these are true when it comes to my experience.

[Valdezi]

I'm not sure if you mean I-RED or the ILF, I have a character in both.

Also I don't really know what NCBFF or ProviBlob mean. I presume that the second has something to do with Providence.

So, yeah.

[Bacchanalian]

I'm not sure if you mean I-RED or the ILF, I have a character in both.

Also I don't really know what NCBFF or ProviBlob mean. I presume that the second has something to do with Providence.

So, yeah.

NCBFF=NC=northern napfest.  Last I saw I-RED they were out in Pure Blind blue to half of EVE (barring last night).  ILF I have little to no experience with that I'm aware of.

Proviblob=CVA's Providence napfest.  Shot at I-RED during the fall of Provi in Jan/Feb a bit while they were living in Providence.

Similarly, the Amarrians obviously were part of Proviblob, for a while EM was part of the FDN umbrella of blues in GW, CAIN was/is in the NC, etc.  Not that there's anything wrong with it per se, just that it makes fighting them impractical or impossible.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

I'm not sure if you mean I-RED or the ILF, I have a character in both.

Also I don't really know what NCBFF or ProviBlob mean. I presume that the second has something to do with Providence.

So, yeah.

NCBFF=NC=northern napfest.  Last I saw I-RED they were out in Pure Blind blue to half of EVE (barring last night).  ILF I have little to no experience with that I'm aware of.

Proviblob=CVA's Providence napfest.  Shot at I-RED during the fall of Provi in Jan/Feb a bit while they were living in Providence.

Similarly, the Amarrians obviously were part of Proviblob, for a while EM was part of the FDN umbrella of blues in GW, CAIN was/is in the NC, etc.  Not that there's anything wrong with it per se, just that it makes fighting them impractical or impossible.

*rolleyes*

If your enemies refuse to leave their ass hanging in the breeze for you to come along and kick without fear of consequences, its a "napfest".  If it is your own corporation keeping enough friends on hand to make sure others think twice before screwing with you, it's "intelligently planned diplomacy".

This whole post (and the latter part of the one before) just comes across as an opportunistic jab.

I always have to chuckle when people try to shame others for pressing every advantage they have...and I seriously doubt I-RED can muster much from a batphone perspective, NAP=/=mutual defense.  I could be wrong, though, perhaps Morsus Mihi and RAZOR will drop their moon goo operations and head over lickety-split to help out some RPers in Syndicate space.  I'm also highly amused at you referencing "CVA vs UK+SF" and completely leaving out the involvement of AAA/Atlas/other southern entities.

P.S. The proper solution, besides complaining about it, would be to make more friends than they do.

In the future, can we keep RP discussion about RP and leave the OOC propaganda war nonsense for CAOD?

All that aside, what few PvP ops I've been on I haven't concerned myself with precisely who the target is as much as what they are flying.  The only concern I attach to identity to while in combat is what is known about their skills and how many allies are likely to be lying in wait somewhere.  I haven't been around for any sort of big faction-level confrontations, so its all anti-piracy.  RP pirates or MMO ganker-types doesn't make much difference to me while on the roam.

[Jekaterine]

I'm not sure if you mean I-RED or the ILF, I have a character in both.

Also I don't really know what NCBFF or ProviBlob mean. I presume that the second has something to do with Providence.

So, yeah.

NCBFF=NC=northern napfest.  Last I saw I-RED they were out in Pure Blind blue to half of EVE (barring last night).  ILF I have little to no experience with that I'm aware of.

Proviblob=CVA's Providence napfest.  Shot at I-RED during the fall of Provi in Jan/Feb a bit while they were living in Providence.

Similarly, the Amarrians obviously were part of Proviblob, for a while EM was part of the FDN umbrella of blues in GW, CAIN was/is in the NC, etc.  Not that there's anything wrong with it per se, just that it makes fighting them impractical or impossible.

*rolleyes*

If your enemies refuse to leave their ass hanging in the breeze for you to come along and kick without fear of consequences, its a "napfest".  If it is your own corporation keeping enough friends on hand to make sure others think twice before screwing with you, it's "intelligently planned diplomacy".

This whole post (and the latter part of the one before) just comes across as an opportunistic jab.

I always have to chuckle when people try to shame others for pressing every advantage they have...and I seriously doubt I-RED can muster much from a batphone perspective, NAP=/=mutual defense.  I could be wrong, though, perhaps Morsus Mihi and RAZOR will drop their moon goo operations and head over lickety-split to help out some RPers in Syndicate space.  I'm also highly amused at you referencing "CVA vs UK+SF" and completely leaving out the involvement of AAA/Atlas/other southern entities.

P.S. The proper solution, besides complaining about it, would be to make more friends than they do.

In the future, can we keep RP discussion about RP and leave the OOC propaganda war nonsense for CAOD?

All that aside, what few PvP ops I've been on I haven't concerned myself with precisely who the target is as much as what they are flying.  The only concern I attach to identity to while in combat is what is known about their skills and how many allies are likely to be lying in wait somewhere.  I haven't been around for any sort of big faction-level confrontations, so its all anti-piracy.  RP pirates or MMO ganker-types doesn't make much difference to me while on the roam.

You're saying that I-RED doesn't have much of a Batphone ?
Now I'll not single them out but what do you think would happen if SF or STIM (for example) packed their shit up and went after them ?
Many people enjoy safe victories and every blue from three regions out would rather ROFLstomp the invader and then go back to ratting than go on the BFF roadtrip their PvPers are doing.

I find your lack of knowledge when it comes to history amusing.
Look at when Bacch was in SF. Now compare it to who held Provi. You'll find that there was no AAA/ATLAS or much of anyone bar U'K that were seriously trying to grab sov there.
The Provi conflict has been going on forever it feels like. Only a short while ago (comparatively timewise) did CVA get kicked out by the forces mentioned by you.

So in the future can we look beyond our noses and look at the rich and varied history of the cluster before we make accusations of CAOD like OOC propaganda ?

That stated I rather shoot fellow RP-ers all things considered. My reasons are much like those stated by Bacch.
It feels like it means more to shoot an in-game ideological enemy as he has a vested interest in winning and so do I. Call it bragging points in a micro cosm sort of way,although it impacts the greater war as well.

[Valdezi]

None of this crap is relevant.

The question has to do with shooting other role-players.

This is not an opportunity to shit-talk my alliance.

Keep on topic, please.

[Laurentis Thiesant]

Oh, I think its great shooting Seriphyn. I encourage this activity often wherever possible.
 

LOVE

[Borza]

I'm not sure if you mean I-RED or the ILF, I have a character in both.

Also I don't really know what NCBFF or ProviBlob mean. I presume that the second has something to do with Providence.

So, yeah.

NCBFF=NC=northern napfest.  Last I saw I-RED they were out in Pure Blind blue to half of EVE (barring last night).  ILF I have little to no experience with that I'm aware of.

Proviblob=CVA's Providence napfest.  Shot at I-RED during the fall of Provi in Jan/Feb a bit while they were living in Providence.

Similarly, the Amarrians obviously were part of Proviblob, for a while EM was part of the FDN umbrella of blues in GW, CAIN was/is in the NC, etc.  Not that there's anything wrong with it per se, just that it makes fighting them impractical or impossible.

*rolleyes*

If your enemies refuse to leave their ass hanging in the breeze for you to come along and kick without fear of consequences, its a "napfest".  If it is your own corporation keeping enough friends on hand to make sure others think twice before screwing with you, it's "intelligently planned diplomacy".

This whole post (and the latter part of the one before) just comes across as an opportunistic jab.

Sounds like you're the one who is attaching negative connotations to "napfest". It's a perfectly accurate description, and part of common EVE parlance.

Shooting RP enemies is much more enjoyable than fighting your random EVE hurf-durf ego warriors.
In my experience most RPers take the game less personally than other players - events happen to their character, not to the player - which translates to much better relations with your putative enemies. For example CVA and U'K have always been bitter IC enemies, but get along fairly well OOC and have had healthy respect for each other, whereas MANY opposing nullsec players seem to get really invested in their alliance and powerbloc and appear to genuinely dislike or despise their opponents. For such players it's EGO Online, less a game and more a competition.

[Myrhial Arkenath]

More satisfied? No.

Happy to have a new plot hook, whether I won or lost? For sure.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

Sounds like you're the one who is attaching negative connotations to "napfest". It's a perfectly accurate description, and part of common EVE parlance.

As I said, its a "napfest" when the other side does it, but its "smart diplomacy" if the same is true of yourself.  The entire etymology of the term reveals its pejorative purpose, it subtly suggests "I think I'm better than you under these theoretical conditions that ignore half of the factors that make EVE what it is".

It was concluded that certain RP entities who don't bend over and agree to absurd "fight fair kplzthxbye" rules of some kind aren't really RPers...then went on to snipe one out by name.

Its one thing if you agree with the charge, but don't sit here and try to tell me that it was some soft-pedaled position, the intent was to make a partisan attack.

[John Revenent]

heh.. blue to most of NC 0.o.

Severence is the only one who has kept us blue from Providence as a FYI and the rest have us neut.. includes NC as well.

We live in Syndicate now fighting Huzzah, Ta8ula Rasa, and others without a batphone.

The only ones who have come to aid us in Syndicate is IPI/ILF, some Gallente Factional Warfare corps (lol?), and some ex-NC alliances that were kicked out like Vanguard. and Def4ant (Who Live with us). Most of these contacts come from In-Game RP, such as RP agreements and the likes.

I for one am done being pets and am content where we are now, fighting in Ishukone operational areas of Syndicate.

Pro-Tip We don't work with CVA because of lack of payment and professionalism (Not bashing CVA just some problems with leadership and "forgetting" debts).

Sorry for derail, will let ya get back on topic.

[Grr]

I must admit to being a vindictive bastard and will single most of you out in a fight

John I feel your pain really but you still owe me a carrier don't you? ^^

[Jade Constantine]

I do warmly remember the real grudge fights we had with PIE/CVA that bacc mentioned. That battleship showdown in Amarr during the Emperor's wake or something that was basically 40-50 a side just standing there slugging it out until we broke the node and Amarr System lagged out was epic entertainment and nobody wanted to quit the field.

That said you can sometimes get a nice feeling of rp-style grudge fighting with non RP'ers.

I've just posted a campaign report on the Star Fraction's defense of YWS0-Z against the treacherous new providence supreme council and the complete annihilation of the new renter alliance they tried to move in ... "on the rocks"

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1405356

What was interesting about this one is that Rocks brought in all their ships and staged them at a pos and pretty much fought the campaign with what they had moved in. We fought with bombers and scimitars (and a couple of cynabals) and it felt more like a battletech style trial of conquest with both sides having assets deployed and no easy replacements.

For the first time in years it actually felt like we were making progress knocking out the battleship used by an a particular enemy for station shooting. When we knocked out their frigates they were removed from the campaign. We could actually see their military capability degrading with each kill and it was quite exciting really.

In the end this is probably the first alliance we've crushed so comprehensively since Mito (they have literally imploded and fallen apart 400 members to 15 in two weeks).

But certainly reminded me how much fun Eve can be when people don't have unlimited ships and station dock games