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[Myrhial Arkenath]

I've always viewed showing off how badass you are through your bio as the equivalent of gangsters taking pride in their crimes, or groups wearing tags with provocative images and messages. It fits certain pirate groups, but certainly not all of them, and even then it depends on the circumstances.

I have "Caldari Citizenship ID: D862UOV0708B-P9 - Revoked, piracy." in my bio, which is more a note you'd find in a CONCORD public profile (that is how I treat my bio). There's a full list of crimes on my (horribly outdated) evelopedia page, which is there for personal reference and posterity rather than to show off.

As for self-image, Myrhial certainly believes the Cartel > Empire factions. Those who've spoken her IC will know she favors the brutal honesty no-nonsense approach and the freedom of trade and other business. The Cartel might work very subtly, but an Angel will take a certain pride in what they do, and in how they do it well.

[Saede Riordan]

I've always viewed showing off how badass you are through your bio as the equivalent of gangsters taking pride in their crimes, or groups wearing tags with provocative images and messages. It fits certain pirate groups, but certainly not all of them, and even then it depends on the circumstances.

I have "Caldari Citizenship ID: D862UOV0708B-P9 - Revoked, piracy." in my bio, which is more a note you'd find in a CONCORD public profile (that is how I treat my bio). There's a full list of crimes on my (horribly outdated) evelopedia page, which is there for personal reference and posterity rather than to show off.

As for self-image, Myrhial certainly believes the Cartel > Empire factions. Those who've spoken her IC will know she favors the brutal honesty no-nonsense approach and the freedom of trade and other business. The Cartel might work very subtly, but an Angel will take a certain pride in what they do, and in how they do it well.

thats basically my attitude too, with Nikita, the cartel is best, its what she knows, everyone else can get hung up on their stupid morals, but she'll come out on top in the end.

[Aria Jenneth]

Aria's view both of herself and the Angels is morally relativistic. She sees the Angel Cartel in Curse as a fringe entity doing what it must to survive-- and, what's more, a necessary "ordering" force in the empire underworlds. As a shadow-society, it has its own rules and its own sense of right and wrong, which do in fact dictate the underworld's morality.

In other words, it's a suitable allegiance for an otherwise "orderly" person who cannot fit into an empire society's mainstream-- and a necessary limiting factor on the doings of more dangerous, genuinely destructive elements.

(The reality of these perceptions is, of course, open to debate.)

This may seem like a fringe view (Aria, after all, doesn't even see herself as human), but it might be fairly widespread, especially in societies where criminal organizations are an active tradition and enjoy a sort of social quasi-acceptance (see, e.g., the Yakuza, to cite a well-known example). The Cartel, or similar organizations, also likely enjoy similar perceptions wherever governments haven't done such a good job of maintaining order, thus delegating the responsibility to criminal gangs. The civilian population of the Sharkon system was actually in favor of recognizing the Angel Cartel, rather than the Minmatar Republic, as its governing authority for a time.

[Merdaneth]

What are pirates in EVE? Most people that play pirates that I experience play people that enjoy killing, with pirates I associate a love for booty and treasure.

I've never ever been ransomed in low-sec during 4 years of play.  I've been attacked countless of times, destroyed many times too, but ransoms? No.

Perhaps most 'pirates' are better classified as outlaws gladiators of some kind.

AS for RP-ing pirates, there seems to be a trend that RP-ing someone associated with a pirate faction is RP-ing a pirate. I think two different definitions of pirates are used here.

[Casiella]

Perhaps most 'pirates' are better classified as outlaws gladiators of some kind.

This is exactly what I've said for a long time. EVE "pirates" rarely are that, because they're looking for fights and ganks rather than profit through violence. Targeted suicide ganks, can flipping, wardecs... that's piracy.

Pirate factions and pirate RPers overlap but both have some areas that exclude the others.

[Aodha Khan]

What are pirates in EVE? Most people that play pirates that I experience play people that enjoy killing, with pirates I associate a love for booty and treasure.

Then your definition is wrong. A pirate can also be someone who commits illegal violence.

[GoGo Yubari]

It's true that most folks who are often called pirates are simply into PvP killing. There's probably a few reasons for this, but one of them is certainly the fact that PvP is hard to come by. When you get that one catch of the day, you really don't want to let them go just because they'd pay a ransom. Also, it's wrong to say you can't be into this sort of piracy for the loot - ships explode and you can loot, salvage, etc.

That said, there's something to be said for groups which do favor ransoms. They are in a way, within the pirate community, a step up the ladder and as someone who's been in the pirate community for a long time, there's a bit of respect that goes with that. I'm just saying that there can be pretty valid reasons for just shooting and pillaging, too though.

Also, pirates have sometimes argued for game mechanical support for ransoming vessels - since the dawn of Eve. I definitely think a "strike the colors" button that would power down your engines and weapons (and signal it visibly) would make a lot of folks who are sitting on the fence choose to honor ransoms.

[Merdaneth]

What are pirates in EVE? Most people that play pirates that I experience play people that enjoy killing, with pirates I associate a love for booty and treasure.

Then your definition is wrong. A pirate can also be someone who commits illegal violence.

But not everyone who commits illegal violence is a pirate. That was sort of my point.

Serial killers, terrorists, illegal combatants, pirates, all terms with different associations.

I see most of the pirates more akin to some kind of 'Predator' (as in the movies), hunting others primarily for sport and thrills.

[Verone]

Then there's the flip side of the coin.

Verone was Federation Navy for almost a decade and served with the GFPD Anti Narcotics Division, Customs, Border Control and Tripwire.

He knows what he's doing is bad. He knows that he's branded a murderer. He knows that he's killing people say in and day out. The difference is, he doesn't give a shit. He was exiled from the only place he felt at home, the Federation. He's at a personal war with the entire cluster, and anything that crosses his path.

Its all about money, pure and simple. Money to fund his corporation, to do more damage.

He's loyal to his friends and his wingmen, he gives everyone a single chance and is big into the stateside premise of personal and corporate honour, which the Guristas have engraved in his way of thinking. I don't really see him as being played any other way.

[Seriphyn]

Having a "pirate attitude" is not exclusive to RPing a pirate faction. The impression I got earlier in my RP career was that pirate RPers are "graduates" of empire RP, "enlightened" from "idealism" and no longer "naive". Empire RPers are, or were, treated IC as those who have "yet to see the light".

It's all a bunch of ponce.

My attitude to Federation RP is "defending the near-utopia by any means necessary", the equivalent of "Bring the Word of God to the Minmatar" and "Liberate your brethren from the Amarr" for Amarr and Minnie respectively. There is no outright enemy, but there are plenty of threats to the Federation...Caldari insidiators, Serpentis corporate infiltrators, slavers, even rebels.

I have adopted the Black Eagle way of doing things into Seriphyn's RP. He conciously carries out morally questionable acts knowing that they will guarantee the 'continued freedoms' provided by the Federation, even if it undermines them. You need pragmatism to defend idealism, you need someone to step out of the circle to protect what's in the circle. Most people pick Federation because they think they're playing the good guys, and once they realize it's hard to do so without any clear ebil enemy...then they give up and do something else.

Anyway, point is, you don't have to be a pirate RPer to RP like an evil badass, nor should you be perceived as 'tougher' than empire RPers because you are a criminal.

[BloodBird]

Good call removing my rant, however useful it was to vent some anger.

While I was - and still am very frustrated due a number of reasons, the post itself was rather useless.

It's in the catacombs for those who care, I might return here tomorrow or later and make a more constructive note on my issues regarding piracy both IC and OOC, for now, I'm gona go get some sleep.

[Seriphyn]

I think the point remains however.

There is nothing to suggest a pirate RPer is automatically more badass and dangerous than an empire RPer.

Compare the Sarum Family to Guristas. The Guristas a band of petty thieves, pirates and opportunists. The Sarum Family is an ancient, militaristic house with a history in influencing the largest and most powerful empire in all of new Eden. If you RP the Guristas however, you are to be percieved as 'tougher'.

Let's take the FDU and a random pirate faction. The Federal Defence Union, from kills and numbers, has become the deadliest and most potent capsuleer fighting force within empire space. With this in mind, there is no reason to believe that a pirate faction is automatically superior to the FDU.

Other things must be taken into consideration, basically.

[Saede Riordan]

Seri I think part of the issue is that a lot of Empire RPers are basically carebears. Running missions and trade routes and such. Yes, I know, not all obviously. But enough of a percentile to create a sort of impression of weakness among members of the highsec community.

[Milo Caman]

Seri I think part of the issue is that a lot of Empire RPers are basically carebears. Running missions and trade routes and such. Yes, I know, not all obviously. But enough of a percentile to create a sort of impression of weakness among members of the highsec community.

Perceived as. The reality, is very different to what you've just listed.

[Aodha Khan]

Perceived as. The reality, is very different to what you've just listed.

Really? URL to empire faction based roleplay killboard please.