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Author Topic: Khanid Cyberknights  (Read 1770 times)

Silas Vitalia

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Khanid Cyberknights
« on: 11 Sep 2014, 09:17 »

As mentioned in another thread:

My characterization of the Knights was ultimately rejected by the Mercury fiction wrangler but I thought it was cool :P


Unifnished but here's what I had:




Cyber Knight

Khanid Cyber Knights are a class of specially-trained soldiers, operatives, and nobles that have combined their ancient warrior traditions with Amarrian cybernetic implants and body modifications to extreme and deadly effect.


==History==

Long before the Khanid people joined the Empire, the title of “Knight” was of special and significant purpose, given by local Lords to individual warriors for spectacular acts of bravery or devotion.  Over the years and after many wars between rival Khanid warlords, an entire warrior-caste and cultural tradition would eventually grow around the title. Knights dedicated their lives to perfecting the art of warfare; they were given the best training, the best weapons, and often the finest educations. The price of, and result of this training was absolute devotion to their Lords.  They were zealous, loyal to a fault, and would fight and die on the front lines without question; all traits that the True Amarr would eventually come to find extremely useful.

As Khanid warlords eventually consolidated power and eliminated one another, the Knights began to merge into Orders, each with specific traditions and ceremonies.  Some orders were dedicated to a particular religious tradition, others to a particular fighting style, but all retained common traits of honor, service, and self-sacrifice.  As knights grew in stature and wealth, the title of “Knighthood” itself eventually became a hereditary title of minor nobility as well.  Not all knights were wealthy, however, and there were many instances of individual knights or even entire Orders having to sell their services to any Lord that would pay them.

When the Khanid people eventually joined the True Amarr in their war of conquest across Athra millennia ago, the Knights quickly found themselves at the forefront of the new Empire’s infantry fighting, and with many opportunities to impress with their dedication and abilities.  The True Amarr had technology far in advance of what the Khanid had developed to that point, but the Knights quickly adapted their training to incorporate all of the modern weaponry provided by their new allies.

During the long history of Imperial expansion that was to come, Khanid Knights were involved in many of the most dangerous and high-casualty operations from large to small; as the vanguard infantry commanders of large-scale planetary assaults, as teams of assassins behind enemy lines, or even as the personal bodyguards of Imperial Governors or religious leaders on distant worlds. 


==Cyberization==

Breakthroughs in medical science and cybernetic implants followed hand-in-hand with the military successes of the Empire.  The endless supply of wounded Khanid ground troops with missing limbs and grievous bodily harm proved a boon to Imperial scientists.  “Dumb” prosthetics with few moving parts were replaced by crude mechanical limbs, which eventually gave way to fully-articulated computer controlled prosthesis as good as the living tissue it was replacing. With advances in miniaturization and nerve-cell integration during these years of research and conquest, some front-line Khanid troops were eventually sporting artificial prosthesis with capabilities far in excess of the limbs they were replacing.  Similar advances transpired with cranial implants; Initially designed as command and control hardware for prosthetic limbs, the Amarr quickly developed more specialized implants to assist and improve cognition, life extension, tactical decision making, and even social interactions.

The bulk of this research was paid for by the Empire in order to benefit the wealthy Holder class, which used these implants to extend their lifespans greatly, to upwards of hundreds of years.  The costs of cyberization and cranial implants remained far out of reach for all but the wealthiest of the Imperial Elite, and of course, the military.

The implants were far too expensive to be mass-produced, and would only be useful for small numbers of highly trained soldiers, of which the Empire already had in the Khanid Knights. Cybernetic implants proved an extremely potent match with the contemporary Khanid Knights, and they were embraced with fervent support. The Knights had the status, the wealth, and the mindset necessary to integrate this technology into their warrior traditions in a seamless way. 

For the Knights, the lethality of modern warfare had unfortunately meant that physical bravery often counted far less than having a good laser rifle, but cybernetic implants made long strides towards changing this balance.  Modifying a soldier that had not only the mind and training of a selfless killer but now had the technology to make it a reality proved a devastating combination.   
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #1 on: 11 Sep 2014, 15:20 »

2 comments:

When you talk about the Amarr first meeting the Khanid and they mention their "knights", what kind of a technological disparity are you talking about? Longbow formations vs. chainmail and swords, muskets vs. bows, etc? I've seen a few interpretations of the technology involved in the conquest of Athra, though to my knowledge none of them have any real degree of PF backing, so I'm curious what your interpretation would be.

Second, you've stopped without mentioning Cyberknights applying themselves to more tactician and strategist kinds of things; again, there are many interpretations of what that "apply themselves to modern battlefields" thing in the description means, so I'm curious if you just didn't get around to it or think the Cyberknights would have stuck to more direct-combat mods.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #2 on: 11 Sep 2014, 16:20 »

2 comments:

When you talk about the Amarr first meeting the Khanid and they mention their "knights", what kind of a technological disparity are you talking about? Longbow formations vs. chainmail and swords, muskets vs. bows, etc? I've seen a few interpretations of the technology involved in the conquest of Athra, though to my knowledge none of them have any real degree of PF backing, so I'm curious what your interpretation would be.

Second, you've stopped without mentioning Cyberknights applying themselves to more tactician and strategist kinds of things; again, there are many interpretations of what that "apply themselves to modern battlefields" thing in the description means, so I'm curious if you just didn't get around to it or think the Cyberknights would have stuck to more direct-combat mods.

Types, I didn't get written down in usable format, but I was basically imagining a range of specialties all the way from ghost in the shell Kusanagi assassin types to cyber-brained walking tactical computers integrated with command posts telling all the fighting units where to go at preternatural speeds, to heavy dust514 style troopers before there were dust troopers.

Open-ended enough for role players to do their own thing, basically.


Technology disparity, no idea as its so unknown and vague on the timeline.  I don't think it matters though in the end?  Its more important their fighting spirit impressed the True Amarr enough to be folded in and given military roles?
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #3 on: 11 Sep 2014, 16:29 »

the evelopedia now has stuff about the conquest of Athra.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pre-Space_Flight_Era_of_the_Amarr_Empire

Looks like, at the time the Amarr and Khanid contacted and eventually integrated, it was pre-gunpowder weaponry.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #4 on: 11 Sep 2014, 17:42 »


Types, I didn't get written down in usable format, but I was basically imagining a range of specialties all the way from ghost in the shell Kusanagi assassin types to cyber-brained walking tactical computers integrated with command posts telling all the fighting units where to go at preternatural speeds, to heavy dust514 style troopers before there were dust troopers.

Open-ended enough for role players to do their own thing, basically.


Technology disparity, no idea as its so unknown and vague on the timeline.  I don't think it matters though in the end?  Its more important their fighting spirit impressed the True Amarr enough to be folded in and given military roles?

Ah, okay! I think I vaguely remembered you saying something along these lines ingame once, hence the questions.

Really a pity - this would have been a great beginning to further fleshing out the Kingdom.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Gaven Lok ri

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #5 on: 21 Sep 2014, 02:16 »

Cavalry would be the obvious route to play with in the earliest days. Amarr as more urbanized and naval oriented with Khanid as more cavalry oriented is always how I have thought about it. No PF for it, other than Amarr being an island and the Turkish/Mongolness of the name Khanid, but it always made sense to me. 

Have you thought about fighter pilot roles and how that might mesh with the heavy cybernetics idea?
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #6 on: 21 Sep 2014, 07:05 »

Have you thought about fighter pilot roles and how that might mesh with the heavy cybernetics idea?

I think Amaitiyana played around with the fighter pilot + cyberknight combination but she's been AWOL for a while. :<
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Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #7 on: 22 Sep 2014, 16:51 »

I've always thought of the concept of knighthood as having been originally Amarrian in origin, with the Khanid taking a particular liking to it considering their traditional steppe warrior-tribe culture.
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Jikahr

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #8 on: 22 Sep 2014, 19:49 »

I enjoyed reading your contribution to the Khanid Cyberknights very much.

I came across this which I thought might interest you. It's a description of the Metabarons from Jorodowsky's 'Incal light' story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabarons
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #9 on: 23 Sep 2014, 00:30 »

Thanks for the comments!

I think a wide enough topic for lots of interpretations and fun imagining.

Gaven re: Fighter Pilot, for sure.  I think there was an old Macross where the two fighter pilots were plugging in to the ships and dueling, hehe.

The problem with the 'cyberknights' is that the EVE PF has sort of steady migrated towards everyone in the military eventually becoming immortal, so what's the point of Cyberknights anymore when DUSTies and now Valkry's are running around immortal and super fantastic win machines?

I think a lot of the fun of the 'cyberknight' trope would be in handling the constant tension between 'old world' Khanid and 'new school' sorts of things.  The Amarr already have a constant battle between old world and modernization, I imagine the same for the Khanid.   

As the Empire and Kingdom militaries become more merged and cooperate, all sorts of fun awkwardness among the officers and 'knights' from different backgrounds.

so-and-so imperial family hereditary officer might want to have a drink and socialize with his Kingdom counterpart as he's done with several in the past, but this new transfer is -old school- Knight family and spends 4 hours a day in the gym punching holes in walls with his robot arm. Not one to bring to the officer's ball, but he did cave that Matari's chest in during that assassination attempt last month.






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Samira Kernher

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #10 on: 23 Sep 2014, 02:49 »

The problem with the 'cyberknights' is that the EVE PF has sort of steady migrated towards everyone in the military eventually becoming immortal, so what's the point of Cyberknights anymore when DUSTies and now Valkry's are running around immortal and super fantastic win machines?

One would expect that most/all cyberknight orders would become DUSTers. They've always been at the cutting edge so there's no reason they wouldn't incorporate DUST tech.

As for what's the point? I don't see any issue with 'the point' with DUST tech. All it means is that there will be more cyberneticized combatants on the field. But most DUSTers won't have the philosophical/religious/knightly aspects that cyberknights have. That'll be the key difference. And cyberknight orders will probably still be at the forefront of development (afterall, seeing as it was Amarr that developed DUST tech, I would expect most of the augmentations are based heavily off of already existing cyberknight tech).
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #11 on: 23 Sep 2014, 13:05 »

Thanks for the comments!

I think a wide enough topic for lots of interpretations and fun imagining.

Gaven re: Fighter Pilot, for sure.  I think there was an old Macross where the two fighter pilots were plugging in to the ships and dueling, hehe.

The problem with the 'cyberknights' is that the EVE PF has sort of steady migrated towards everyone in the military eventually becoming immortal, so what's the point of Cyberknights anymore when DUSTies and now Valkry's are running around immortal and super fantastic win machines?

I think a lot of the fun of the 'cyberknight' trope would be in handling the constant tension between 'old world' Khanid and 'new school' sorts of things.  The Amarr already have a constant battle between old world and modernization, I imagine the same for the Khanid.   

As the Empire and Kingdom militaries become more merged and cooperate, all sorts of fun awkwardness among the officers and 'knights' from different backgrounds.

so-and-so imperial family hereditary officer might want to have a drink and socialize with his Kingdom counterpart as he's done with several in the past, but this new transfer is -old school- Knight family and spends 4 hours a day in the gym punching holes in walls with his robot arm. Not one to bring to the officer's ball, but he did cave that Matari's chest in during that assassination attempt last month.

I did a small amount of research in the (now old) PF at the start of TEA when I started a small cyberknight oriented corp, and as I was trying to figure out how to integrate the concept into a capsuleer corp, I came across some bits that seemed to me to point to an old tradition of a warrior caste full of cyberpunk gimmicks and cyber augmentations that rendered them lethal on the battlefield of old days, maybe to the point of worshipping their cyber stuff more than their true faith. spending a lot of time training and honing their skills in martial arts. That added to the description of the khanid males and females (where female were said to be extremely reserved and nice, often housewives and stay-at-home for their husbands), it just screamed to me samurai caste.

And somehow I imagined perfectly that tradition supremacy to have become more and more threatened by the advances of weapons, available to any soldier, etc etc, and it screamed Meiji restoration to me. With the eventual disappearance of that order as it was, relegated to old traditions and ceremonies. But maybe the order of cyberknights survived somehow, by changing and becoming something else ?
« Last Edit: 23 Sep 2014, 13:07 by Lyn Farel »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Khanid Cyberknights
« Reply #12 on: 23 Sep 2014, 14:31 »

The problem with the 'cyberknights' is that the EVE PF has sort of steady migrated towards everyone in the military eventually becoming immortal, so what's the point of Cyberknights anymore when DUSTies and now Valkry's are running around immortal and super fantastic win machines?

One would expect that most/all cyberknight orders would become DUSTers. They've always been at the cutting edge so there's no reason they wouldn't incorporate DUST tech.

As for what's the point? I don't see any issue with 'the point' with DUST tech. All it means is that there will be more cyberneticized combatants on the field. But most DUSTers won't have the philosophical/religious/knightly aspects that cyberknights have. That'll be the key difference. And cyberknight orders will probably still be at the forefront of development (afterall, seeing as it was Amarr that developed DUST tech, I would expect most of the augmentations are based heavily off of already existing cyberknight tech).

I think more of what I mean is that

"when everyone is special, no one is"

I still strongly think DUST and Valkyrie would have been better if your 'respawn' was actually a new nameless mortal each and every time you died, showing you how high the casualties are for the baseliners fighting for the higher-ups.

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