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[Gor Na]

Amarr Citizenry Project

What is the ACP?
This is a project that aims to serve the common good of Greater Amarr (Amarr Empire, Khanid Kingdom, Ammatar Mandate). It is based on the belief, that this principle goal is reached through the cooperation of the Empire's residents and that the base of every cooperation is communication.

How does the ACP work?
The infrastructural groundwork is a loose network of corporations and alliances not bound by any ingame structure. Communication will be provided by shared forums and mailing lists. The ACP will be led by a council, whose task it is to watch over the rules being followed.

The centrepiece of the project will be the corporation Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque, which will have the focus of attention in the initial period.

There are rules, aren't there?
ACPs setup is that of a combine of capsuleers (and their non-capsuleer subjects) living in Amarr Empire Space, meaning that her Empress' law has to be acknowledged and followed. There are 3 ruled derived from this fact:
+ Stated Amarr Subject (situated in Greater Amarr Space)
+ Anti-Piracy
+ NRDS

To add a mandatory OOC-rule (that shouldn't even have to be mentioned): mature behavior and mutual respect are required.

Who is in it?
Anyone willing to follow the rules described above. Corporations and alliances who choose to oppose those rules ('ICly') can still be part of it, as long as they do it secretly (following the fact, that there is no political entity, where the given rules are embraced by everyone. Depending on the threat of punishment, many might just not admit it publicly).

This project is founded on an RP ground and promotes the latter, but does not enforce it.

How should this promote any 'common good' and what does the latter even mean?
If there is a network with a constant flow of communication, every cooperation is automatically boosted. This goes for industrial and trade ventures, as well as for PvE-Operations, WH-Expedition and everything else that players would like to engage in. Securing this, an enhanced economy and a greater pool of possible activities to be part of should establish themselves (including RP-events).

To provide a short expression: more ISK and more fun.

[Karmilla Strife]

If Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque is a casual RP/PVE group why is a formal RoE necessary?

Secondly, why does everyone assume the Empire's default RoE is NRDS? I seem to remember an Imperial Navy event actor ordering Amarr Loyal capsuleers to kill every other pilot in a system during a Sansha pre-incursion event.

[Graelyn]

Yeah, be careful that you don't straightjacket yourself. The Empire may be the best behaved Empire, but it's hardly lawful good.

[Gor Na]

+ RoEs are always necessary if you set rules for a society (or a society-like structure, like this one). Its how they work.
+ I don't know, why that commander gave a termination order like that, but it doesn't seem like an everyday policy at all. Maybe an extreme measure to clear the area of possible foes. Plus an order like that seems pretty illogical to me, if the goal of the killing was to kill fellow citizens.
+ Shooting at each other at will doesn't make up very lawful space. I think that is why everyone assumes NRDS as the default rule. It has to be the core rule in every empire's space as long as the ruling force has the power to control it. There is an ambition in statecraft to establish a monopoly on armed force by the ruling power. Otherwise, the ruler might be removed by those with better arms.
+ Those 3 core rules seem something like a minimal consensus to me, easy to follow by everyone who doesn't try to make laws of his own.

[Karmilla Strife]

Ask any CVA or EM diplomat how much work maintaining a proper NRDS standings list is. I hesitate to say the only alternative is NBSI which implies shoot everything.  There's no clever acronym but a suggested RoE: Don't be a dick. If you cause trouble, it's your responsibility to fix it, or we'll kick you out/shun you.

After several years in low and nullsec I definitely have a feel for which pilots are out to kill me, which are just passing through going about their business. Not everyone has that experience but it is really simpler to just not shoot blues and not stir up trouble then to worry if every neutral you come across is hostile or not. They all are.

I understand your point regarding lawfulness. Quite well actually. I was fined by CVA for killing a pilot that had aggressed on an Amarr Station "to test his tank." From my point of view, he wasn't a blue and had shot at Amarrian property and citizens. It should have been fair game. Unfortunately CVA disagreed and I'm still bitter about that 11 million isk.

However, the Amarr Empire is aggressive, expansionist, and imperialist. The reason why it's an Empire is because they conquered all the neutral neighbors they could. I don't think true NRDS is the most appropriate RoE for Amarr. I think in the spectrum between NRDS lawfulness and NBSI domination, they lean closer to NBSI, especially within their own space.

[Gor Na]

I agree with the point of maintaining a red's list being a lot of work. I'm fine with giving the baby another name and going by that after. All that is aimed for is exactly what you wrote about too: treat your fellow citizens bad and you'll get kicked out of the network. But that implies NRDS to a certain point, because shooting another amarrian is bad behavior.

Quonquered neighbors, neutral or not, were all outsiders. Empires and states of all sorts have in general done well in keeping peace within their space through establishing a monopoly on armed force (or at least being unrivaled in that regard), because if they didn't, they got overthrown by someone who could do so. Colonies in the imperialistic 19th century were known for being more peaceful after being conquered by one of the major european nations than before due to the reason of the colonial power doing exactly what I've described above. I think one can assume the great amarrian empire would try to do the same and keep the peace by the means of arms.

To not make all of this too complicated: this project is meant to bring players closer together and those 3 rules are meant to be the most simple RoE I could think of. Without the latter, peaceful cooperation cannot be secured (but must be in my opinion).

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Now that I'm able to post here again (yay \o/ ):

It is really quite easy with Empire and NRDS: Of course the Navy doesn't get to fire on non-declaed targets. Declared targets are red. The Amarr Empire is factually NRDS. That it set all nations it encountered to 'red' doesn't change that it's combat pilots need to get clearance to shoot if they make contact with an unknown.

I think going by NRDS is reasonable, for the time being. If people want to join that aren't NRDS one can see if one amends that point (e.g. other types of RoE's are allowed under certain conditions, e.g. NBSI ROE's need to set all members of the ACP to blue).
Anyway, this isn't the thread to debate ROE's, really, I think.

The point seems to be to establish that we don't shoot one another as Amarr (at the very least not without giving fair warning by formally declaring war and such).

((As to [SFRIM] being a casual RP-PvE corp, we might not really need a RoE, but anyone who shoots on someone unprovoked (being an enemy of the Empire or Greater Amarr might be seen as provocation) will have to expect to bear consequences. [SFRIM] isn't out there for senseless destruction.

So, while we don't need a formal RoE, we de facto operate under a NRDS (or simply DS) RoE))

[Arista Shahni]

Despite this explanation I am having trouble seeing the point of it.  It is something established that, as far as I am aware, has no real purpose among Amarr RPing corporations because we a) already don't fire on each other and b) already help each other out, out of a sense of communal duty.  One generally builds something like this when these things are absent, and they aren't.  So I'm confused as to its pupose save to create positions of power or influence that aren't really necessary.

Pardon my cynicism.