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[Nicoletta Mithra]

Jin-Mei spiritualism is also welcomed in the Empire and occasionally incorporated into the wider religion, [...].

If you're referring to Adakul, I don't think it's qualifing as a religion, nor as spiritualism (At least not in the sense of the belief that  spirits of the dead reside in the spirit world and have both the ability and the inclination to communicate with the living.) It's described as a 'philosophy' by PF, not committing to any religious propositions.

But yah, it has been declared to be not in conflict with the Scriptures by the TC.

[Louella Dougans]

Falcon warned that developments in the Amarr religion, and how it relates to capsuleers will be apart of some upcoming lore-dumps, which would make our efforts rather pointless. And so we do nothing some more.

That physically hurt to read.

Slightly bemusing.  Surely that would be an ideal catalyst?  Players kick the ball to get it rolling, loredump ensues?

set up a roleplay thing, only to have a lore-dump confirm/deny a bunch of things, which will leave those who took opposing viewpoints in the roleplay event looking foolish at best.

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[Samira Kernher]

Jin-Mei spiritualism is also welcomed in the Empire and occasionally incorporated into the wider religion, [...].

If you're referring to Adakul, I don't think it's qualifing as a religion, nor as spiritualism (At least not in the sense of the belief that  spirits of the dead reside in the spirit world and have both the ability and the inclination to communicate with the living.) It's described as a 'philosophy' by PF, not committing to any religious propositions.

But yah, it has been declared to be not in conflict with the Scriptures by the TC.

Just wording. I wasn't sure if you called it philosophy, spirituality, or meditation. Spirituality felt the most neutral.

[Lyn Farel]

Also, the Amarr church is not like the Catholic church, and shouldn't be. Quite a few of us prefer more Persian or Islamic influences over Catholic ones.

Personally I don't prefer any of them since I believe they do not really fit, even if I recognize some inspirations here and there (mainly, etymology). Inspirations from all over the world, monotheism yes, but also a very asian rigid celestial order with pyramidal castes, and that's quite central in the Amarr Religion as well.

I just tend to refer to it as the Amarr Religion (vs the Amarr Orthodox, only being the main doctrine).

[Victoria Stecker]

I'd been building up to a big event where Capsuleer clergy would do just that, pressure the TC to decide (they've been deliberating for a decade or more, which isn't uncommon for them historically) once and for all what a capsuleer IS when it comes to matters of the soul. There would have been massive political repercussions that I won't get into here.

Event got nixed. Falcon warned that developments in the Amarr religion, and how it relates to capsuleers will be apart of some upcoming lore-dumps, which would make our efforts rather pointless. And so we do nothing some more.

this made me smile, and laugh, and almost cry.

It's like, "Here, we've done a bunch of work to set up an awesome event to catalyze figuring out some of the unclear things in the lore." "Oh, that's nice. Don't waste you're time, we're just going to do a lore dump."

You're handing CCP :awesome: on a silver platter and they're not even going to look and see if they can work with it rather than just taking a dump on it instead.   

[Shiori]

Yeah. Precisely.

I mean, CCP's got to do what it's got to do, and better to be warned than to have it dumped on you cold, but still.

[Graelyn]

Nah, Louella's got it right. If we do a bunch of stuff, and then a ton of already-in-the-pipe stuff comes along and just contradicts it all, then that's arguably quite worse.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Jin-Mei spiritualism is also welcomed in the Empire and occasionally incorporated into the wider religion, [...].

If you're referring to Adakul, I don't think it's qualifing as a religion, nor as spiritualism (At least not in the sense of the belief that  spirits of the dead reside in the spirit world and have both the ability and the inclination to communicate with the living.) It's described as a 'philosophy' by PF, not committing to any religious propositions.

But yah, it has been declared to be not in conflict with the Scriptures by the TC.

Just wording. I wasn't sure if you called it philosophy, spirituality, or meditation. Spirituality felt the most neutral.

Oh, yes, spirituality kind of feels right. Maybe it's just me nitpicking about the word (spirituality vs spiritualism).

[Arista Shahni]

I'll just continue to be a Khanid sect clergy.  Everything I mutter is vauge enough to fit Scripture.

[Sepherim]

Everything I mutter is vauge enough to fit Scripture.

That's usually the best approach, yes.

[Keirym Thara]

I'd been building up to a big event where Capsuleer clergy would do just that, pressure the TC to decide (they've been deliberating for a decade or more, which isn't uncommon for them historically) once and for all what a capsuleer IS when it comes to matters of the soul. There would have been massive political repercussions that I won't get into here.

Event got nixed. Falcon warned that developments in the Amarr religion, and how it relates to capsuleers will be apart of some upcoming lore-dumps, which would make our efforts rather pointless. And so we do nothing some more.

this made me smile, and laugh, and almost cry.

It's like, "Here, we've done a bunch of work to set up an awesome event to catalyze figuring out some of the unclear things in the lore." "Oh, that's nice. Don't waste you're time, we're just going to do a lore dump."

You're handing CCP :awesome: on a silver platter and they're not even going to look and see if they can work with it rather than just taking a dump on it instead.   

Remember who CCP owns now, and how that company (White Wolf) has historically treated their players when it comes to canon renegades.  For those that do not know, White Wolf, the makers of Vampire: the Masquerade and others, is notorious about storyline canonization and rather religious beat-downs of outside ideas.

Part of the reason I was interested in Eve was the buyout of WWGS, and their involvement supposedly in the storyline of Eve.  But I have also, years ago, seen how the WWGS mantra hurt and ruined their RP community.  Not saying that WWGS is handling this, but that approach seems very familiar.

[Louella Dougans]

The Letters of Bishop Dalamaid are relevant to this discussion, I feel.

"The letters of Bishop Dalamaid have been the subject of volumes of intellectual discourse. The primary contention of the letters, that true saintly martyrdom is an impossibility for anyone even aware of the concept of sainthood, has gone through various levels of favor over the generations. "

They are the writings of a Bishop, but they are Not Scripture, and the popularity of the ideas in them varies over time.

So, we can use the Letters, to observe a few things.

1. The Scriptures do not contain anything relating to saintly martyrdom, and there is much argument and discussion by various clerics about the issue.

2. Since the Letters are Not Scripture, then the Theology Council has not come to a decision about the issue.

3. If the Theology Council comes to a decision, making the Letters either Scripture or Heresy, then, it shows that the Theology Council's role is to determine what is and what is not Scripture.

4. Thus, as long as a religious group bases their beliefs from the Council approved Scripture, then they can have substantially different interpretations, giving rise to a great diversity of beliefs within the wider Amarr Church.

[Karmilla Strife]

I'm not sure I agree with the first part of point 1, Louella. It assumes that the letters of Bishop Dalamid are the only documents containing anything relating to saintly martyrdom. There could be other documents, some of which could be scripture.  Since there's a problem with point 1, point 2 may be false. The TC has not come to a decision about the letters, not saintly martyrdom.

[Louella Dougans]

Well, maybe I was a bit generalising there. Perhaps "The scriptures do not contain much relating to saintly martyrdom" is better.
Also, put in a "Yet", so that point 2 is "the Theology Council has not yet come to a decision"

[Victoria Stecker]

I'm going to draw a comparison to RL religion (which I know is inherently dangerous).

Christian scriptures say a lot about a bunch of different subjects. Take, for example, heaven.

Scripture says plenty about heaven, yet there is none the less a lot of debate about exactly what it's like, why it matters, etc. Scripture talks about something, but isn't exactly a detailed textbook diagraming exactly how it works.

So the Amarrian Scriptures likely discuss martyrdom, at least to the extent that it's A Thing, but the Bishop may have felt it necessary to flesh out some doctrinal details not covered in scripture. His conclusions may be based on interpreting existing scripture, or it may simply be philosophical musing. Either way, his letters do not (in my opinion) suggest that scripture doesn't talk a lot about martyrdom, but rather that scripture doesn't clearly specify his particular conclusion, "that true saintly martyrdom is an impossibility for anyone even aware of the concept of sainthood."