Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Agreed, Kala. I can imagine you'll see more tacklers fitting painters specifically to aid the Raven's ability to lay down the smack.

[kalaratiri]

Agreed, Kala. I can imagine you'll see more tacklers fitting painters specifically to aid the Raven's ability to lay down the smack.

It just so happens that the bellicose is a pretty great heavy tackler, with a rather particular bonus

[Vikarion]

That is some serious bitter you have there Vikarion.

I'm ::bittervet::, sure, but this isn't personal. I trained Gallente, Amarr, and Minmatar, and can fly them with pretty much all skills at V. I can also fly Caldari with nearly perfect SP, so whatever happens, I'm going to be fine.

CCP have stated they will be looking at Torps as well as cruise missiles.

Really? I missed that. Then again, CCP has a horrible record with missiles, so we're almost just as likely to see them declaring torps and cruise in need of a nerf as we are to have them buffed. As far as I can tell, no one in CCP even tries flying larger Caldari ships in PvP.

This new Raven will outperform the Tempest. It is as fast, deals more damage to BC/BS, has more ehp and is easier to fit.

It will outperform the tempest at...what? Close range DPS? Sure, fine, if you pack a bunch of target painters on it. In which case, the Tempest will have more tank, and more utility slots, and will probably kill your Raven easily. But the Tempest is an alpha damage boat anyway, and it does that job far better than the Raven.

So, perhaps I am wrong that every other battleship in the game performs better than the Raven at a particular role. It might be more accurate to put it this way: for any situation in which a Raven might be used, two or three other ships will be far superior at performing the same task.

The Raven is a great PvE ship and has been the staple Caldari mission boat for years because of it.

It's a horrible PvE ship. It has only a "meh" tank, and its mission DPS is outperformed by a well-fit Dominix, Maelstrom, Abaddon, Apocalypse, Tengu, or many others, most of whom have at least equivalent or much better tanks. Now, the CNR has a bit more of a claim to usefulness in the mission department, but in terms of the best mission ship, the Raven sits well below many other non-faction or tech 2 ships.

"Dying horribly" is one of the staples of PvP no matter what ship you fly.

Yeah, but most pilots try to minimize that part. The Raven isn't very good at minimizing that part.

A couple of Ham drakes will cost about the same.

And will have about double the EHP, and a good bit more DPS. Better yet, get a couple Talos's: not only will you do tons more damage per ship for only slightly less tank per ship, but you'll also be really, really fast, and cheaper to boot than a couple Ravens.

Maelstrom/Abaddon I will accept, but they are also two of the slowest subcaps in the game.

Why be fast when you can hit them from here?

Seriously, if you are soloing in a BS, you are usually...going to die horribly. We're talking small gang warfare. Maybe you have the idea that the Raven is going to kite, or something, or maybe you're thinking that the speed will allow it to get into range quickly, I'm not sure.

What I am sure of is that you won't be kiting Maelstroms - among others - in your Raven. They'll just sit there and shoot you, and they'll start shooting you before you even get into range, and they'll have a much better tank than you. And when they attack, they don't need speed, because they can hit from farther than the Raven can. Any situation where these longer ranged ships are outclassed is a situation in which the Raven is already completely irrelevant, because even at high speed you won't be able to close fast enough.

Currently, torps will deal close to full damage to a double webbed mwd'ing BC. They will deal full damage to an mwd'ing BS. They will deal around 1/2 damage to mwd'ing, double webbed cruisers.

Good luck getting a MWD'ing target double webbed without getting into range of blasters. If you do, why aren't you in a Megathron/Talos, which is miles better at melting targets? If you aren't in that ~10 km golden range, why aren't you in a autocannon-based or laser-based ship, which can start melting around 40km, and need not worry about webbing their targets nearly as much?

Trust me, I used to think torps were awesome too. Then I tried using them in PvP.

There are plenty of ways to fit Ravens that outperform other battleships, but as a torp/shield boat it is shoehorned into a 30km engagement range with particular tanking types. (By the way, torp range on a phoon is 18km.)

Raven also sucks as a sniping ship with cruise. And I didn't say that the Typhoon was awesome, either, but at least the Typhoon bonus is a nod to one of the big problems with torpedoes. Still, I'm not planning on flying a Typhoon, either. To be quite honest, after this patch, almost all of the battleships will be less useful than a battlecruiser.

Just as it is right now.

[Lyn Farel]

Than a battlecruiser navy issue maybe ?

[kalaratiri]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3043755#post3043755

Hi guys

We're making a couple small changes for the Tempest and the Typhoon, I'm telling you about them!

For the Tempest, when we said it was going to be Minmatar's second attack ship instead of combat, we moved the stats to somewhere inbetween for some reason. So now I'm going to finish the job.

Tempest:
127 Max velocity (+7)
.119 Agility (-.001)

6800 Shield hp (-200)
7000 Amor hp (-300)

This means the Tempest will still have more base hitpoints than it does currently on TQ, and it will also have slightly above average hp for an attack battleship, which we feel is warranted by being a little weaker in some other respects. In trade, it now goes much faster. With one nano and no implants or links, it goes 1251m/sec. It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes. I hope this direction is fun and rewarding and makes the ship stand out.

For the Typhoon, we are making smaller changes.

6 Turret slots (+1)
100600000 mass, (-3000000)

It didn't make a lot of sense to have 5 turrets and 6 launchers, especially when the Navy version is 6/6. The mass change is minor but it brings the mass a little closer to its attack BS bretheren.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Morwen Lagann]

Hi guys
It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes.

I have always maintained that the Tempest is best Minmatar battlecruiser. Good to see CCP agrees.

[kalaratiri]

Hi guys
It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes.

I have always maintained that the Tempest is best Minmatar battlecruiser. Good to see CCP agrees.

Unfortunately, it is still more massive than both the Apoc and the Raven. ._.

[kalaratiri]

Hi guys
It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes.

I have always maintained that the Tempest is best Minmatar battlecruiser. Good to see CCP agrees.

Unfortunately, it is still more massive than both the Apoc and the Raven. ._.

And now they've sorted that (mostly).

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3072298#post3072298

Aww you guys spotted it so quick!

I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.

Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)

To make that more obvious:

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 127(+7) / .116(-.004) / 99500000(-3800000) / 16.00s

[Silas Vitalia]

I'm gonna stand by my prediction of -massive- cruise missile / torp buff, and Raven Spam the likes of which we haven't seen since Drake OP days.

Cruises and Torps have been shit for too long, with limited uses.  We have an EVE pattern of whatever weapon system is at the bottom of the totem pole for a few years to get massive buff into overuse then nerfed back to normal.

Torps / Cruises are due for their time in the sun.

[Caellach Marellus]

I'm gonna stand by my prediction of -massive- cruise missile / torp buff, and Raven Spam the likes of which we haven't seen since Drake OP days.

Cruises and Torps have been shit for too long, with limited uses.  We have an EVE pattern of whatever weapon system is at the bottom of the totem pole for a few years to get massive buff into overuse then nerfed back to normal.

Torps / Cruises are due for their time in the sun.

So, lasors get rebuffed next again?

[Lyn Farel]

Of course. That's how it works with CCP, full gamedesign escalation. Making obsolete things no more obsolete, thus rendering the next close to obsolete thing completely obsolete. And then making that obsolete thing up to date, thus making something else obsolete.... 

[Andreus Ixiris]

I have a couple of serious issues with the people CCP have put on this project. They seem to be able to understand criticism on a basic level but they don't really seem to grasp the reasons people are criticising them.

[Lyn Farel]

What are those reasons ?