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[Louella Dougans]

Heard rumblings about Westminster apparently backpedaling on their promises already. I haven't found a reliable source on it as of yet, but I wouldn't be surprised. Time for an England referendum to try and gain independence from Westminster, yeah?

The elections for Westminster are in May 2015. The legislative timetable up to that point, laid out in the Queen's Speech has already been made. It's not really possible to get much done, by any of the Westminster parties, until after that election.

there are some Scottish nationalists who would be extremely opposed to any kind of devolution for the regions of England, such as Yorkshire, Cornwall, Northumbria and the like, because they view it as diminishing Scotland's status, by making it equivalent to "a mere region".

Its the classic politician's behaviour dilemma:

Do you A: do something to benefit everyone? B: stab your political rivals in the back?

almost every politician I've ever seen on the telly in the UK, has chosen B. 

[Kala]

Quote from: Louella Dougans on 19 Sep 2014, 10:18
I disagree that the ScotsNorwegians have a national identity.
when what I mean is
Quote from: Louella Dougans on 19 Sep 2014, 15:12
..there [isn't] a common ScottishNorwegian identity that everyone can identify with.

I'm not sure how they are entirely different statements.  A common identity within a country was my understanding of what national identity means.

Wiki gives me:

"National identity is a person's identity and sense of belonging to one state or to one nation, a feeling one shares with a group of people, regardless of one's citizenship status. Yoonmi Lee sees national identity in psychological terms as "an awareness of difference" - "a feeling and recognition of 'we' and 'they'"

It also suggests "The national identity of most citizens of a state or nation tends to strengthen when the country or nation is threatened militarily, economically or culturally"

This idea of 'we' and 'they' is also known as 'othering'.

The concept of identity becoming nationally unified when under threat by something else external, is important I think. 

It also suggests identity is fluid, rather than a concrete concept.   

Because at the end of the day, if nothing else, Nationality itself is a part of culture. I have as much right to call myself a Norwegian as the dude from Oslo does, and I honestly believe that with very few exceptions anyone born and raised in a nation get nothing less than a BIRTH-RIGHT to call themselves citizens of that nation.

Sure.  But national identity is not the same as citizenship.

Identity is a fairly nebulous concept.

Being a citizen of a nation seems less so.  It will be on your passport, for example.

[kalaratiri]

Yeah, it is going to be a no. How boring.

Late reply, but I've not had wifi for several days.

Fuck this attitude. I'm sorry if the country I live in and the country I'm from deciding that maybe they don't hate each other quite that much after all isn't entertaining enough for you. I mean god damn.

[Mizhara]

Pretty sure he meant from a polsci standpoint, not from your average spectator's.

Similar to how I can find complicated trauma incredibly interesting as a paramedic, but I'm obviously not pro car wrecks as a person.

[Jace]

Yeah, it is going to be a no. How boring.

Late reply, but I've not had wifi for several days.

Fuck this attitude. I'm sorry if the country I live in and the country I'm from deciding that maybe they don't hate each other quite that much after all isn't entertaining enough for you. I mean god damn.

As Miz said, I was saying this from the perspective of my field. In my earlier post I already mentioned that I have no personal or emotional investment in the situation but that it was very interesting from a political science perspective.

[Louella Dougans]

Now, the yes campaign have said that they're going to ignore the result of the referendum, and press for unilateral declaration of independence, as a republic. They call for companies to be punished for not supporting the yes campaign. Blaming people aged over 50 for the result.
Neither Mr. Salmond or Ms. Sturgeon turned up for the Church of Scotland Special Service of Reconciliation, while the other political leaders did.

so much for "the sovereign will of the scottish people".

civil war and terror bombings aren't a completely unrealistic prospect now.

[Elmund Egivand]

Now, the yes campaign have said that they're going to ignore the result of the referendum, and press for unilateral declaration of independence, as a republic. They call for companies to be punished for not supporting the yes campaign. Blaming people aged over 50 for the result.
Neither Mr. Salmond or Ms. Sturgeon turned up for the Church of Scotland Special Service of Reconciliation, while the other political leaders did.

so much for "the sovereign will of the scottish people".

civil war and terror bombings aren't a completely unrealistic prospect now.

And right there, folks, is tyranny showing its true colours.

[Louella Dougans]

if they thought that the UK government was bad, they know nothing.

What UDI means, after having a referendum where the result was against independence, is that nobody except Russia and North Korea, maybe Argentina as well, would recognise it. The EU wouldn't. The UN wouldn't.

It'd mean sanctions, blockade of trade, refusal of credit. That oil ? not going anywhere.

It'd mean all the IRA supporters at Celtic Park, and all the Orange Order, would be going to actual war against each other.

The aftermath would be, that Scotland would forever be a backwater, despised and reviled by the international community.

But no, a bunch of old men, sore at losing, want independence in their lifetime, even if that means killing hundreds of thousands of the people of Scotland.

[Elmund Egivand]

if they thought that the UK government was bad, they know nothing.

What UDI means, after having a referendum where the result was against independence, is that nobody except Russia and North Korea, maybe Argentina as well, would recognise it. The EU wouldn't. The UN wouldn't.

It'd mean sanctions, blockade of trade, refusal of credit. That oil ? not going anywhere.

It'd mean all the IRA supporters at Celtic Park, and all the Orange Order, would be going to actual war against each other.

The aftermath would be, that Scotland would forever be a backwater, despised and reviled by the international community.

But no, a bunch of old men, sore at losing, want independence in their lifetime, even if that means killing hundreds of thousands of the people of Scotland.

45% is more than 'a bunch of old men'. I think there's something that needs fixing.

[Louella Dougans]

the bunch of old men, I was meaning the politicians.

this talk of UDI, by the politicians, is to say "The voters voted the wrong way, we must take steps to ensure they can never do that again".

[Lyn Farel]

Well as much as I can understand that voters vote the wrong way most of the time (tongueincheek), that is a terrible excuse.

[Elmund Egivand]

the bunch of old men, I was meaning the politicians.

this talk of UDI, by the politicians, is to say "The voters voted the wrong way, we must take steps to ensure they can never do that again".

Heh, in democracy, there is only the wrong way to vote.

[BloodBird]

if they thought that the UK government was bad, they know nothing.

What UDI means, after having a referendum where the result was against independence, is that nobody except Russia and North Korea, maybe Argentina as well, would recognise it. The EU wouldn't. The UN wouldn't.

It'd mean sanctions, blockade of trade, refusal of credit. That oil ? not going anywhere.

It'd mean all the IRA supporters at Celtic Park, and all the Orange Order, would be going to actual war against each other.

The aftermath would be, that Scotland would forever be a backwater, despised and reviled by the international community.

But no, a bunch of old men, sore at losing, want independence in their lifetime, even if that means killing hundreds of thousands of the people of Scotland.

Well you are doing a wonderful job dehumanizing the political opposition, basically talking like they are a tiny minority or stuck-up fools angry about losing their privileges or whatever and that they are devolving into terrorism.

Wait and see, will you? Disagreeing and assuming horrible intentions on the opposition's part are very different things.