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[Milo Caman]

The lore and the game mechanics, time and again, show that the game world is now a shallow space opera setting.

FYP

It wasn't always like this 

[Alain Colcer]

I believe the concept of lore, prime fiction, storyline development and all that jazz  becomes an "upper layer feature" to the game. It adds an intangible content that players can use for themselves.

As its something that do not requires programming per-se, though it might be helped or enhanced if you put programmer hours into it, but you can come up with something really simple to begin with.

The problem lies between how much people CCP thinks can be enticed or entertained by EvE fiction in comparison to a new shiny feature or fix/balance in game mechanics. This truly presents a dilemma as problably the playerbase will lean towards actual fixes.

[Seismic Stan]

... Part of what makes their product unique is the rich depth of lore and the immersive nature of the game world.

I have to disagree with this.

The lore and the game mechanics, time and again, show that the game world is a shallow space opera setting.

It is the stubborn insistence of roleplayers that create the depth to the game world, because they spend their time interacting with the shallow game world in 'deep' ways.

I have my own theories why people get so immersed and hung up on EVE that are not welcome on these boards, so I shall not dwell on that...

I don't dispute that roleplayers add an extra layer of depth to the immersion, but you're thinking like a roleplayer. From the perspective of a casual player or an outsider there is a beguiling darkness and a sense of wonder in simply moving through the world and being overwhelmed by the detail. Roleplayers tap into that and build beyond it, but that is a niche within a niche. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the min/maxers for whom the enjoyment is in the DPS and the Kill:Death ratios.

I'm talking about promoting the casual enjoyment of your "shallow space opera". New and/or casual players have the overwhelming sense of "so much going on" because they are not yet judging and dismissing aspects of the game as we more established players are inclined to. They still have that sense of awe and wonder. To them, the fact that there are cadres of RPers out there somewhere pushing the storyline forward whilst conversely in the far-reaches there are thousands of null-sec zombies participating in an endless grand bloodbath IS part of the immersion.

My point is that sold right, they are both equally powerful motivators for people to get involved in EVE Online. However, presently only one is being properly identified and exploited.

[Gottii]

... Part of what makes their product unique is the rich depth of lore and the immersive nature of the game world.

I have to disagree with this.

The lore and the game mechanics, time and again, show that the game world is a shallow space opera setting.

It is the stubborn insistence of roleplayers that create the depth to the game world, because they spend their time interacting with the shallow game world in 'deep' ways.

I have my own theories why people get so immersed and hung up on EVE that are not welcome on these boards, so I shall not dwell on that...

I don't dispute that roleplayers add an extra layer of depth to the immersion, but you're thinking like a roleplayer. From the perspective of a casual player or an outsider there is a beguiling darkness and a sense of wonder in simply moving through the world and being overwhelmed by the detail. Roleplayers tap into that and build beyond it, but that is a niche within a niche. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the min/maxers for whom the enjoyment is in the DPS and the Kill:Death ratios.

I'm talking about promoting the casual enjoyment of your "shallow space opera". New and/or casual players have the overwhelming sense of "so much going on" because they are not yet judging and dismissing aspects of the game as we more established players are inclined to. They still have that sense of awe and wonder. To them, the fact that there are cadres of RPers out there somewhere pushing the storyline forward whilst conversely in the far-reaches there are thousands of null-sec zombies participating in an endless grand bloodbath IS part of the immersion.

My point is that sold right, they are both equally powerful motivators for people to get involved in EVE Online. However, presently only one is being properly identified and exploited.

This is a good post.  Thank you for your input on this.

[Seismic Stan]

Further to this discussion (and with the intention of putting some questions together for Verone in his Fanfest -Questions for CCP thread), I instead went on a bit of a blogging crusade. The result was Power Gamers vs Content Seekers.

I would value your input.

[Techie Kanenald]

Stan, I apologize for my first post in this thread.  After reading your blog there, I can whole heartedly throw myself behind what you are saying.

I just hope folks higher up than I will listen.

[Graelyn]

You made it to EVENEWS24, nice job.

I figured the response would be simply LOLRPFAGSLOL.

[Seismic Stan]

You made it to EVENEWS24, nice job.

I figured the response would be simply LOLRPFAGSLOL.

There will undoubtedly be some of that. On my blog I've appended the article with an explanation to the null-sec players that are bound to miss the point and assume I'm ranting against null-sec. Entertainingly, Riverini syndicated the article before I added that, so shitposting will undoubtedly ensue. I've also posted it on Reddit, which usually meets with rage. Surprisingly, this time I've had some intelligent responses.

There is hope amongst the hopeless.