Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Anabella Rella]

Jeez, I had no idea that CCP had changed the PF on cloning but, it makes sense to go along with their revised "when you first become a pilot we euthanize your original body" crap, I guess.

Good lord when will CCP quit messing around with the lore for no discernible reason?

[Steffanie Saissore]

So, some of the stuff I've read here and have been thinking about reminds me a bit of Shadowrun with the Stim chips and simulated virtual reality chips that people could buy, plug in and then experience the life of someone else.  These typically could not override the memories of the user, but depending on the nature of the chip, the user could become addicted to the sensations created by the stimuli.

As for memory wipes/deletes/modifications...I think that could be a possibility in EVE, however the reason I don't think it is common place or has much chance of working is due to the nature of the technology involved. If we stripped everything down to just data and forget all the other stuff for a moment, one of the reasons I think clone tech is beyond most baseliners isn't necessarily the process itself, but the installed hardware firewalls and shielding devices in the capsuleer implants to prevent someone from wiping the hard drive as it were. I would be of the opinion that the hardware would have to be hardened against the feedback that we get when in the pod and therefore would prevent just about any attempt to memory mod/wipe a target.

Not saying that it isn't possible, just highly improbable. If someone wants to come up with a story/character concept where their memory gets stolen, fiddled with, I'm cool with that, just so long as some thought is put into it. It doesn't have to be 'realistic' to convince me, just something more than "just cuz".

One thing that I've had an issue with is the supposed physical frailty of the clones. Yes, we don't need to be super-soldiers, but I don't buy the "will likely die if they catch cold cause of sterile environments"...the moment you step out of the tube to get into the pod, you'll likely have contracted any number of nasty bacterial or viral agents. If cloning is supposed to be an expensive process, I want that money I'm spending on clones to include one hell of a immune system. Also, assuming nothing really funky, unless they are basing your clones off of genetic material taken whilst you were still in the womb, the genetic building blocks they are working with are going to include things like your basic immune systems..I think (I could be wrong on this part, but I see that as being part of one's genes).

Fortunately, the whole clone/jumpclone/softclone/hardclone/sheepclone has never really been an issue in the RP I've had in EVE.

[Lyn Farel]

I have a problem with it since to me it totally breaks my suspension of disbelief.

We know that cloning is highly expensive and barely affordable by 99,9999...99% of the cluster. Memory tampering on a - LIVING ! - being is an even more complicated process which involves a lot more than just copy/pasting a brain pattern like cloning does. The only damn hint we have about that are skillbooks afaik, and those are not affordable either. Ah yes, there is also TCMCs and Sansha implants, but those do not modify your memory, those feed you with faked sensory input or just defy your own control on your brain functions...

I'm still stuck on it and don't like to think of people running all around tampering with their memory and going all Remember Me because it's cool.

Well yes, it's cool, but it's highly godmoddy. This is not Shadowrun, this is Eve.

/rant.


But yes, I don't really believe in clone frailty to the point of being suddenly all sensitive to every microbial stem... If we were we would already be all sick to death of tetanus considering what we get in place of Minmatar CQs... I would even prefer to lick a subway pole rather than putting my hands on those... things.

[Arista Shahni]

Meh.

Keep in mind you can tamper with memories *today* through good old fashioned brainwashing.  The memory centers of the brain are not accurate things, not really.  You can implant memories in people's heads simply through the power of suggestion, and the associative centers work with the imagination and stored data to create a scenario that the person will swear to their grave is true. 

Implanting a sensory memory (I went to the beach, I slept with a supermodel) won't be all that difficult.  Sorry.  It's true. 

The BOOKS (I can operate a microwarpdrive,  or even, I can play the piano - not an existing book, but not something (a skill) that can be created by imagination) ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS though.

TODAY you can convince people horrible things happened in their childhoods with a few weeks of just face to face scounseling.

I'm pretty sure a machine even slightly adjusted to effect someone's brain could do it in the time it takes them to hit the button. 

Heck.

Playing a psychologist - I have *altered players memories just by roleplaying at them* in the sense of lowering the impacto of traumatic incidents, etc.

[Lyn Farel]

Yes, a different animal.

Thanks for the input, it also helps me to define it better.

[Arista Shahni]

Yeh.. basicl "total rtecall" stuff.. if MEMORY.. but once the "memory" is over the person "forgets" the 'kung fu' moves they used in the memory, ... doable.  Remembering them after the fact.. not so much.

It is a "sore point" with me as Arista is a failed Clonejack.  However, the culprit used illegal Skillbook tech, with the massive amounts of ISK required to pull that off.. and it was *failed*, turning sensory/etc memory into the equivalent of memorizing a textbook, with Arista never being able to use the memory as more than 'theoretical knowledge' (like watching or reading a 'how to' and having little clue how it ACTUALLY works) - or what we'd been referring to as 'muscle memory' - if you include, for example, spaceship flight skills as 'muscle memory' style skills.

[Vieve]

Yeh.. basicl "total rtecall" stuff.. if MEMORY.. but once the "memory" is over the person "forgets" the 'kung fu' moves they used in the memory, ... doable.  Remembering them after the fact.. not so much.

It is a "sore point" with me as Arista is a failed Clonejack.  However, the culprit used illegal Skillbook tech, with the massive amounts of ISK required to pull that off.. and it was *failed*, turning sensory/etc memory into the equivalent of memorizing a textbook, with Arista never being able to use the memory as more than 'theoretical knowledge' (like watching or reading a 'how to' and having little clue how it ACTUALLY works) - or what we'd been referring to as 'muscle memory' - if you include, for example, spaceship flight skills as 'muscle memory' style skills.

Over in my little corner of the sandbox, I've toyed around a fair bit with neural recordings, backups and clone jackings/hackings.  I've argued that neural recording burners extract memories layer by layer, beginning with autonomic physical functions (Layer Zero) and proceeding through the other layers in order of programmed preference. Only Layers Zero and One (Sentience) are required for a functioning -- albeit animal-like -- neural copy, while Layer Three (Intellect) enables that neural copy, if plugged into a clone, to learn.   The base/objective structure of memories can be found in Layer Four, as part and parcel of time perception.  Layer Five contains the "tags" for muscle and other sensory memories, while Layer Six stores emotional associations.  I think there might have been other layers that came up in play, but heck if I can remember them right now. 


Your play with Arista reads like the poor girl suffered a failure in Layer Five and Layer Six integration.

[Arista Shahni]

Which is good, otherwise she'd have been a rather evil Amarrian pirate, and not herself.

Caldinea (A couple of people have seen me RP her) is not a nice lady. 

It also didn't overwrite Arista's initial memory like it was supposed to, it just added the memories of a second person, and wherever the "failure" was, it made her realise they were not her memories, and didn't cause something like MPD.