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[V. Gesakaarin]

Lol. Funny, that you two focus about my Ayn Rand comment, but totally dont care care that I call the State Fiction.   Unrealistic fiction to more clear. Thats why I think you will not find an answer, but nevertheless I would happy to proven to be wrong.

Fiction can tend to be unrealistic and open to interpretation, that's why these discussions exist because there isn't exactly a wide body of work to get your citations from unlike in the real world.

Sure, sure, sure as I said. Im happy to proven wrong, but I dont hold my breath. If someone finds a realistic and logical explanation about the "state of the state" and "state of the fed", Im the first how rolls with it.

I might be willing to answer only if you can give me a realistic and logical explanation how Greedo shot first in the Cantina in Star Wars.

[Publius Valerius]

Lol. Funny, that you two focus about my Ayn Rand comment, but totally dont care care that I call the State Fiction.   Unrealistic fiction to more clear. Thats why I think you will not find an answer, but nevertheless I would happy to proven to be wrong.

Fiction can tend to be unrealistic and open to interpretation, that's why these discussions exist because there isn't exactly a wide body of work to get your citations from unlike in the real world.

Sure, sure, sure as I said. Im happy to proven wrong, but I dont hold my breath. If someone finds a realistic and logical explanation about the "state of the state" and "state of the fed", Im the first how rolls with it.

I might be willing to answer only if you can give me a realistic and logical explanation how Greedo shot first in the Cantina in Star Wars.

Lol. I was think about a Star Wars example here as well. I mean makeing one in my first post too. But I have change it to my long Khanid post... You are right, I cant make any realistic or logical explanation about THE FORCE as it is space magic; or in your example about Star Wars puppet Cantina with its weird space aliens, as it is space fantasy.

My second thought was about, that topic: here. Meaning, trying to find stuff about the state is like finding an explanation for some "handwavium magitech" Meaning that most stuff (in primefiction) just is there because of the rule of cool (15:46) in the best case. In the worst case just some "inductive something" (Rand) or "brocken explanation model (often a trade off isnt use**)" with unanswered motivation of individuals (Rawls)*. But Im happy to proven wrong, and role with any outcome.




*What I call before Rawls-error and Rand-error. As I have a strong hapit to give some actions the name of the guy/girl how is famous for it. Thats why I came up with TonyGism
**He knows it would destroy his model. So he just says that someone can choose two conflicting outcomes totally, without saying why that is the case. What I call a world without opportunity cost, for the sake of "blurrb"... aka a good feeling in your body, when you reading it, that a "just" world is possible.


Edit:In other words:
Rand Objectivism=Inductive reasoning get sold as science, as valid explanation. Which it isnt. THATS WHY IT IS FICTION
CCP Caldari Prime Fiction=Inductive reasing get sold as explanation. Which it isnt. THATS WHY IT IS FICTION

Rawls=World without trade-offs gets sold as if something like this could exist. Which it cant. THATS WHY IT IS FICTION
CCP Fed Prime Fiction = The Fed gets presented as a world without trade-offs gets sold as if something like this could exist. Which it cant. THATS WHY IT IS FICTION

TonyGism=World were indiviuals choose not the best outcome for themself, but what the plot likes them to do so. THATS WHY IT IS FICTION
CCP Prime Fiction about Jamyl and the others=Shows a world were indiviuals choose not the best outcome for themself, but what the plot likes them to do so. THATS WHY IT IS FICTION

I hope that explains it better. And I would actually go so far to say THATS WHY UNREALISTIC FICTION, but as I said I roll with anything.

[Desiderya]

Oh shit, it's MC Getting Sidetracked Easily! ( 2:34 )

Let's get back on track.

What do people mean when they say militarism?  Are they referring to a structured/scheduled life-style? Warrior culture?  The references to historical examples have referenced both, but I think they are really separate concepts.

In the case of the whole of the Caldari State, I think the emphasis really would really be on the structured/scheduled life-style.  But within that is a subculture with a definitive warrior culture aspect in the Civire.

I'd agree with your conclusion. I don't think it emphasizes individual "master bushido zen warrior" traditions, but something similar to the Amarr's Navy, a military institution. Caldari are highly collectivistic, so being that cog in the wheel is most likely a very pleasant spot to be.

At the opposite end of this spectrum, members of space forces are highly-skilled and professional, having to operate and maintain the advanced technology that Caldari starships are known for. These are the career soldiers who frequently remain in the military for life from an early age, respected and honored highly by the masses. A famed few (including Ishukone CEO Mens Reppola) from this caste go on to leadership positions elsewhere in the State.

Like most elements of Caldari society, it is not possible to ascend to management position immediately by virtue of a higher education. There are generally only two ways to become an officer; either training from adolescence where the strong are weeded out from the weak, or having ascended from the rank-and-file. Even children of high-ranking admirals will be expected to start as an entry-level crewperson.

[V. Gesakaarin]

But Im happy to proven wrong, and role with any outcome.

This isn't about right or wrong, but just my disagreeing with the notions Ayn Rand presented in her fiction applying to the Caldari. This is why I brought up John Galt and Howard Roarke because in both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead they are presented as individualist figures overcoming society through their own talents and ability. In the PF as presented by CCP the Caldari have references to prescribing to a, "Greater Good," or rather that the expectation via cultural conformity is that the individual is supposed to use their talents and ability towards the collective welfare of their society and not towards their own self-interest. Which would be a bit counter-intuitive to me at least with the individualism, and almost anarcho-capitalist, concepts Ayn Rand explored in her prose fiction writing and her Objectivist philosophy. Discounting the fact that the Caldari State culturally at least shares on the surface, the collectivist trends of Soviet Russia (Without the Marxist economics) from which Ayn Rand fled and denounced.

The purpose of this thread however wasn't about Ayn Rand or Objectivism but rather a discussion on the thoughts and impressions others might have about Caldari militarism. I'm sure you can create another thread if you really want to explore that tangent as it applies to the State if you wish.

[orange]

At the opposite end of this spectrum, members of space forces are highly-skilled and professional, having to operate and maintain the advanced technology that Caldari starships are known for. These are the career soldiers who frequently remain in the military for life from an early age, respected and honored highly by the masses. A famed few (including Ishukone CEO Mens Reppola) from this caste go on to leadership positions elsewhere in the State.

Like most elements of Caldari society, it is not possible to ascend to management position immediately by virtue of a higher education. There are generally only two ways to become an officer; either training from adolescence where the strong are weeded out from the weak, or having ascended from the rank-and-file. Even children of high-ranking admirals will be expected to start as an entry-level crewperson.

I sense a lot of Heinlein's Starship Troopers trying to be channeled in the bit of PF.

There is an important difference between technical ability and leadership ability.  The best warrior does not necessarily make the best leader.   The Senior Graviton Reactor Engineer on a Caldari Navy Wyvern may have as many years of service as the Admiral commanding the fleet it is part of, but they live and work in entirely different spheres.

In general, I think the Caldari culture as a whole respects and admires dedication to craft/purpose.  The dedication it takes to spend life in a profession where death is a normal result becomes an exemplar to the factory drone maintainer.

[Lithium Flower]

I sense a lot of Heinlein's Starship Troopers trying to be channeled in the bit of PF.

Yes! This.
There are some quite visible parallels between Caldari State and Terran Federation. For example, same Caldari ideal of sacrificing for greater good.
As an addition to the topic, I envisage that only military service (as serving obligatory conscription term) gives Caldari full citizenships, and thus those, who pick military career (to be trained as officer and dedicate their lives to Navy), became elites in society akin to higher corporation management.

As for being warrior/leader, for example, my character plays role of a warrior who really suck at being a leader (mostly because I suck at it as a player  )