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[Matariki Rain]

New lore wiki entry: Vuld Haupt

It turns out that Sebiestor religious leader Vuld Haupt, who made a statement about wormholes a few years ago, is apparently not just one among many religious leaders but is the Sebiestor tribal Spiritual Leader, listed just below Karin Midular in her role as Tribal Leader.

I'm still processing the idea that the Sebiestor have a version of the Dalai Lama.

There are lots of snippets there to develop, including:

-- hints about how clones are seen, and how new rituals are being developed to include them within the traditional ways,
-- a shrine tradition which from the write-up sounds more monastic than shamanic,
-- a tradition of the rebirth of spiritual leaders which is seen at least in some quarters as paralleling the Intaki one (and since I've previously interpreted Intaki rebirth as seriously disturbing to a spiritual Matari this is going to require some pondering),
-- stuff about wormholes and Sleepers, in particular intimations about the things we're stealing from the Sleepers and the effects of those artifacts on both them and us (set-up for DUST implants with the realisation of what they are and what gathering them requires),
-- German language influences in Sebiestor ("Vuld Haupt", "Nochgefror", the incredibly useful terms "ohnesh" and "andesh" built from "ohne" and (I'm guessing) "andere" which describe states I've had Mata blog about without having terms for them),
-- a friendly, open, but not naive religious figure who's embracing technological and social change, who thinks that science and religion are complementary, and who hopes we can all find the common threads and learn to get along (this is EVE: someone's going to assassinate him, right? Or maybe he'll upload into a Sleeper mind and the next rebirth will be when some podder clones and find there's another inhabitant in the new mind/implant),
-- a prediction that the next spiritual leader will be found among the capsuleers.

What do these things change? Personal responses:

-- I'd be prodding at the implications of a line of spiritual leaders, especially through the Long Exile, and probably deciding not to follow that too far lest it make my head hurt again.
-- It does suggest there's a whole other aspect to Sebi religious life that's not our clan-level ancestor worship and shaman-mediated ecstatic seeking after the sublime.
-- It has me wondering about raiding sources about Himalayan Buddhism/animism/shamanism/Bon. It also has me wondering if the things that we're told are facets of Matari spiritual life are so diverse that you can't draw predictive patterns from them.
-- There's scope for blessing tools and ships: maybe a framework for that thing you put in your cargo bay and carry with you because it's special.
-- There's scope for turning wormhole exploration into fully-integrated life-and-spirit questing. Sleepers suddenly seem a lot more interesting, but also as though there's going to be pain in that quest.

Thoughts?

[Laerise [PIE]]

-- a tradition of the rebirth of spiritual leaders which is seen at least in some quarters as paralleling the Intaki one (and since I've previously interpreted Intaki rebirth as seriously disturbing to a spiritual Matari this is going to require some pondering),

That depends a lot on how you look at spiritual rebirth.

In one religion rebirth might be attributed to having done good in ones old life - in another it might be the default thing that happens after death - in yet another it might be a sign that one has not yet reached karmic equilibrium.

[NISYN Aelisha]

Not to mention the fact that the Matari do not technologically ensure that such Rebirth goes through whether the spirits will it or not .

[Matariki Rain]

Please educate me! My impression had been that Intaki rebirth involved taking a baby, destroying its personality/mind/spirit, and filling it with the personality/mind/spirit of some dying and culturally-privileged person. Looking at the PF, have I merely assumed the "destroying" bit about the baby? What other options do you see for the process?

(This is a Very Bad Thing if you have Mata's clan's perspective on "spirit". This view of the Rebirth process -- whether or not it's accurate -- shaped Mata's ideas about the Reborn as people who destroy the spirits of children in order to steal their bodies to extend their own lives.)

From Vuld Haupt's wiki entry I'm not sure if the idea is that original child died, leaving the body free for the spiritual leader to move in, or whether the near-death experience made the child susceptible to being also inhabited by a second spirit.

[Gesakaarin]

What interests me is the question as to whether each tribe have their own religious leaders and traditions that differ from each other? It seems like the Minmatar don't have an organized religion per se but something more akin to each tribe having different oral traditions and philosophies centered around forms of animism/shamanism/esoteric concepts?

Also, the Vuld Haupt entry seems to imply that the Minmatar have an interesting relationship to technology... are similar concepts at play with things like the Vherokior and the Voluval in which there's both a scientific and technological aspect to the marks as well as a cultural and religious significance?

If so, are Minmatar scientists held in the regard as some form of "Techno-Shamans" in the culture of the Republic?

[Graelyn]

I lovedLovedLOVED this particular article.

[Bong-cha Jones]

Please educate me! My impression had been that Intaki rebirth involved taking a baby, destroying its personality/mind/spirit, and filling it with the personality/mind/spirit of some dying and culturally-privileged person. Looking at the PF, have I merely assumed the "destroying" bit about the baby? What other options do you see for the process?

It's a baby.  There's not a lot of personality or mind there to destroy.  The brain is literally incapable of holding an adult personality, and any child's personality would be an emergent process that develops over time.  There's nothing there that can be removed, save the option of coming up some other way.  Given the Intaki focus on holism, everything informing everything, etc, and the role Intaki ritual played in informing the modern cloning process, I'd say they are aiming at recreating a process, with the memory transfer being something of A Mysterious Mystery.

[Isobel Mitar]

I like PF getting some CCP attention, and especially this stuff, as I find the way Sebiestor Tinkerers combine tribalism with high technology interesting. 

I especially enjoyed the bit about new rituals being developed to include clones in the tribal spiritual framework. It fits well with how I imagine Sebiestors - and particularly Tinkerer bloodlines - approach technology. I theorize for Sebiestors existing spirituality is extended and evolved to find places for new technology. Perhaps "How do we make this new technology ours?" rather than "Does this new technology fit our ways?"

I also liked the part about Sleepers. Much RP potential there.

I am ambivalent about the rebith theme and uncertain of how to interpret Vuld Haupt rebirth. Did the old spiritual leader die before Vuld Haupt was born, and the near-death experience only awakened something dormant? Did Vuld Haupt somehow catch the spirit of Calo Hayek under the ice?

I have previously played that some Matari believe that famous ancestors and heroes can be said to be "reborn" in later generations. This was not believed to be a continuation/rebirth of the same person but rather overloading the term; belief in  a child inheriting special ability or "essence of greatness" from a heroic ancestor, making the child predisposed towards achieving greatness in a way similar to that ancestor. (Recommend interaction with Intaki for best RP confusion effect. )

-- It does suggest there's a whole other aspect to Sebi religious life that's not our clan-level ancestor worship and shaman-mediated ecstatic seeking after the sublime.

Sebiestors are generally described as innovative and ingenious thinkers. This suggests to me an intellectual curiousity, possibly even appreciation of intellectual gymnastics that might well extend also to the field of spiritual/religious life. Perhaps out-of-clan spiritual leaders could fill some of that niche? In a high technology society that does not see religion and science in opposition it could be easy and natural to follow feeds from one's favourite spiritual thinkers together with the day's latest engineering news.

[Ava Starfire]

I thoroughly enjoyed the article. The melding of technology and ritual is something I have toyed with somewhat, as is the idea that Sebiestor are a deeply religious people who go farther than simply "worshiping their ancestors". The idea of wisdom beyond one's years fits in well with my image (and attempts at portraying) a shaman, as the word does quite literally mean "one who knows" (Ava is simply not sure what to DO with it) The source of that knowledge here, however, takes a fun twist; a gift from a previous shaman, as Mata pointed out, quite a lot like the Intaki. I had thought about the "source", but had never really gone beyond simply thinking about it.

-- I'd be prodding at the implications of a line of spiritual leaders, especially through the Long Exile, and probably deciding not to follow that too far lest it make my head hurt again.
-- It does suggest there's a whole other aspect to Sebi religious life that's not our clan-level ancestor worship and shaman-mediated ecstatic seeking after the sublime.
-- It has me wondering about raiding sources about Himalayan Buddhism/animism/shamanism/Bon. It also has me wondering if the things that we're told are facets of Matari spiritual life are so diverse that you can't draw predictive patterns from them.
-- There's scope for blessing tools and ships: maybe a framework for that thing you put in your cargo bay and carry with you because it's special.

Thoughts?

The idea that the Sebiestor have a structured religion is somewhat surprising, but I kind of like it. The idea of carrying a blessed item is something I have been doing for some time, and it was an idea I got from a person who was once a member of Gradient, and quickly disappeared. A lot of stuff to build from here, and I thank CCP for writing it. Sebbies, at least, have a religion which rivals any in depth, scope, and structure, and obviously, importance to the faithful. Maybe sometime we should talk, Mata, so I am not inadvertently stepping on toes you may develop from here?

Ava

We even got a hint of some special days, dogma, and that yes, Sebiestor do have special religious structures. Kind of awesome!

[Myyona]

Having some difficulties "living a life outside of herself", I am certain Myyona conducts the Blessing of Clones often.

[Publius Valerius]

I lovedLovedLOVED this particular article.

Agree it is really well written, I like the overall look and style. As for the content also great (Im still reading tru all the new pages).

[Publius Valerius]

-- German language influences in Sebiestor ("Vuld Haupt", "Nochgefror", the incredibly useful terms "ohnesh" and "andesh" built from "ohne" and (I'm guessing) "andere" which describe states I've had Mata blog about without having terms for them),
Thoughts?

About that point, I remember very dark, that I read something on the eveger forum about that topic. Serval players had made list about matari names from "heim" (home) over system names etc.... with an interpretion what it could mean actually (which genus it has (like matari or pator) and its place in the historical and nordic mystic etc....)

If you like... I can try to find that topic after the holidays ... and try to translate it. So far still reading (just one weird thing that the side has some extra width?

Edit: Happy holidays to all.

[Ava Starfire]

I know it had pretty well been settled on that "Heim" meant "Home", "Matar" meant both "people" and "mother" (Possibly akin to how "Eve" is both a greek word for "Woman" as well as the religious connotation that Eve is "mother" of all mankind) "Pator" = "father" or "people", similar to Matar, San- means "ruler of" or "protector of".

The Minmatar systems are all definately germanic or nordic in naming, and of course the ships are straight out of Norse mythology. Icelandic, Norwegian, or German all make good sense as a "basis" for the Minmatar language; Ava pretty routinely uses "Hvit" or "Hvit nott" as a greeting, and I have seen others use similar words. While i dont believe a "language" needs exist for RP, a few words and phrases would be nice... at least imo!

[Adreena Madeveda]

*crawls into the light, blinking and hissing*

(Possibly akin to how "Eve" is both a greek word for "Woman" as well as the religious connotation that Eve is "mother" of all mankind)

Hebrew... It's Hebrew. The greek word is gynè.

*crawls back into the shadows*