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DED has very long-standing military laws governing the conduct of its officers.

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Author Topic: Hilmar email leak  (Read 6895 times)

orange

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #45 on: 25 Jun 2011, 09:03 »

You can end up lingering around for reasons other than the core product.  For example a community you enjoyed or a story/world you find interesting.
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Ken

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #46 on: 25 Jun 2011, 09:11 »

All I see is hilarious internerd rage. Has my daily EVE experience changed? Nope. The core of EVE as a single server virtual universe is still there? Yep. Do I know of any game that has what I like about EVE? Nope. Buy the product or don't. The rage to me looks like drug addicts whining and rageing about their dealers changing the product a bit and thinking they matter. They either continue their habit or quit. Imagine a junkie crying "Baaw, my highs aren't the same anymore and now they want to charge me for gold needles too, what is the world comming too. I'm quitting now, ha! Take that you evil drug dealing people..."

You're right, the basic gameplay experience is still the same on the 25th of June as it was on the 24th.  What has changed, through the coincidence of several events that we probably need not recap right here (just listen to the EVE Radio panel recording), was a significant change in the underpinnings of the play.  Although I'm sure it's been true for a long time, this massive PR failure has laid bare in a striking way the relationship that exists between CCP and the players.  The happy assumption that the players were invited to come and experience a thrilling, challenging sandbox game and that the people who shaped its rules ultimately agreed with the community's vision -- that they were, despite being devs, fundamentally our fellow players in the sandbox (if not friends, brought together by a shared love for a hobby) -- is rather rudely dashed by:

Quote from: Hilmar
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.

In general, I'm not easy to offend, but after the fourth or fifth time a friend flips me off and tells me to go eat shit in one day, I start to wonder if they're not joking.

My point really is that EVE is a commersial product and no one forces you to buy it. CCP are free to do whatever they want with EVE. A lot of EVE players seem to think they have some odd rights to decide about the product more than to buy it or not. People just prove how addicted they are when they just can't make a clean break but linger around for years after they quit the game (or so they say =P ) bittervetting and whining on forums.

That's true, but it's not the way I think a lot of people looked at it.  Rather than a product, many see EVE as a shared project.  EVE gameplay is about creation.  It's about making what you will of the cluster.  What you do, even what you say, matters.  It is unlike any other MMO on the market and for a long time the dynamic that existed between the company and the customers felt more like a partnership than a transaction.  The community and the devs were creating something unique together.  CCP still has a chance to reclaim that image, but they've got a steep slope to climb to get back to the top of the hill.

Basically, the rich kid who lives in a huge mansion with a fun park in the backyard invited us over to play, and for a while it seemed like he genuinely liked having us there and the fact that it was his house and his toys and his rules didn't have meaning because a sense of friendship trumped all that.  Then one day, we overheard him telling his parents how he really felt about us and the opinions weren't very flattering.  So, there's a choice to stay and keep playing because the toys are neat, but in doing so, you go on with the knowledge that your "friend" really isn't.
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Casiella

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #47 on: 25 Jun 2011, 09:22 »

I still have the tiniest glimmer of hope that CCP will fix this. No idea how, but dammit I like this game.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #48 on: 25 Jun 2011, 09:26 »

My point really is that EVE is a commersial product and no one forces you to buy it.

And this is exactly why I am cancelling my sub. At least, me.

CCP are free to do whatever they want with EVE. A lot of EVE players seem to think they have some odd rights to decide about the product more than to buy it or not. People just prove how addicted they are when they just can't make a clean break but linger around for years after they quit the game (or so they say =P ) bittervetting and whining on forums.

Or maybe they show that they care about the game. Probably both.
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Lydia Tishal

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #49 on: 25 Jun 2011, 10:25 »

While my game play experience really hasn't changed at all with Incarna, the question I keep asking myself is "What is Eve going to look like in two years, and do I want to invest a significant portion of my free time in order to be able to see it?"

I think for most people, this is the real problem.
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Vikarion

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #50 on: 25 Jun 2011, 10:33 »

You can bet that I'll be trying to get existing customers to quit, and I'll be warning anyone else off of all of CCP's products. I'm vindictive that way.  :twisted:

No, if your going to go do this, your just an asshole.

Frankly if you want to quit, then un-sub and go. Leave. Do other stuff.

What you don't get to do is try to convince everyone else to abandon their oppinons and choices about this game and substitute your own, then leaving because you say so. What you won't get to do with any kind of right on your side, is 'warn' non-EVE players that 'eve is shit' over your personal oppinion. Let them try it out and decide for themselves.

Frankly, this entire incident is absurd. You folks want to un-sub? Go ahead, no-one can stop you. And if you decide to come back later, EVE will still be here, and we will welcome you back.

Now, cata-hammer, in 3, 2, 1...

Well, I see it as a sort of justice. When CCP spent more time trying to communicate with their customers, I spent time trying to get them new ones. I even paid a couple subs for my friends so they could play.

So, if it is just to reward someone who communicates with you, who cares about their product, who acts with caution when messing with their game, isn't it also just to warn people off when you think they will be mistreated as a customer by the game producers?

Perhaps you don't understand what I mean by vindictive. When I say that, I mean that I don't believe in letting people get away with bullshit, nor do I expect other people to let me get away with it. If someone lies, misleads, and betrays you, it's right and just to tell others who might be harmed by that.

And I want CCP to fail until they change their ways, too. At best, they will change. At worst, they will go bankrupt, but perhaps others will learn from them. Perhaps someone else will actually buy Eve. Would I take pleasure in their failing? Not as much as if they changed course, but at least they would get what they deserved.
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Alain Colcer

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #51 on: 25 Jun 2011, 10:35 »

While my game play experience really hasn't changed at all with Incarna, the question I keep asking myself is "What is Eve going to look like in two years, and do I want to invest a significant portion of my free time in order to be able to see it?"

I think for most people, this is the real problem.

+1
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Vikarion

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #52 on: 25 Jun 2011, 10:42 »

While my game play experience really hasn't changed at all with Incarna, the question I keep asking myself is "What is Eve going to look like in two years, and do I want to invest a significant portion of my free time in order to be able to see it?"

I think for most people, this is the real problem.

+1

And I think this is why I, and many other people feel betrayed. Because we have already invested time and energy into a game, and now it feels like we were suckered. In fact, we probably were.
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orange

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #53 on: 25 Jun 2011, 10:52 »

Take a look at the various player-made territorial maps.  I find one in particular very important - the animated map.  Why and how is it pertinent to the conversation?

It is a great example of player investment in time & effort making Eve the good game it was/is/can be on multiple levels.  First there is the map itself, which took time for the person to make.  Then there is what it shows - thousands of players fighting over regions of space and building internet-spaceship fiefdoms.  Then is there is the stories attached to how those maps change - sometimes through shear in-space effort, others through subterfuge and cunning.  That is all players.

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Seriphyn

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #54 on: 25 Jun 2011, 11:24 »

While my game play experience really hasn't changed at all with Incarna, the question I keep asking myself is "What is Eve going to look like in two years, and do I want to invest a significant portion of my free time in order to be able to see it?"

I think for most people, this is the real problem.
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Kemekk

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #55 on: 25 Jun 2011, 12:02 »

All I see is hilarious internerd rage. Has my daily EVE experience changed? Nope. The core of EVE as a single server virtual universe is still there? Yep. Do I know of any game that has what I like about EVE? Nope. Buy the product or don't. The rage to me looks like drug addicts whining and rageing about their dealers changing the product a bit and thinking they matter. They either continue their habit or quit. Imagine a junkie crying "Baaw, my highs aren't the same anymore and now they want to charge me for gold needles too, what is the world comming too. I'm quitting now, ha! Take that you evil drug dealing people..."

This is how I see things too. I think everyone is overreacting as none of the "end of the world" plans have been put into action. If they are implemented, then I'll probably quit, but not as the game is right now. The only thing that has changed over the past couple of weeks is that they've added CQs, and it looks like tons of people are leaving over that.

I play another MMO that is in the same situation as EVE is right now: Age of Conan, except AoC has been like this for the past 3 years. Funcom (AoC's developers) releases an update or their plans for the future and the community (the forums) goes insane and they all say they're quitting and all that usual bullshit. But in the end the game still lives and the people that left always come back.

I'm not too worried. EVE as of right now has not changed from how it was in Incursion, so I won't be leaving.
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Horatius Caul

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Re: Hilmar email leak
« Reply #56 on: 25 Jun 2011, 12:36 »

I dug this up yesterday. There definitely seem to be people at CCP who are less than happy with how their company has launched the MT thing, but they are probably silenced by internal pressure.
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