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[Laerise [PIE]]

Hello there boys and girls.

Since a lot of people on here seem to have put quite a good ammount of thinking into the whole "how do the empires navies work" stuff I figure we could do something along the lines of the show Deadliest Warrior*.

To ensure that this doesn't devolve into a tits for tats argument I'd like to ask everyone who wants to participate to sign up for this first.
We'll be looking for experts on the following:

All 4 empire faction navies.
The power bloc constellations: Gallente-Minmatar, Amarr-Caldari.
Experts on the wildcards, the non-aligned/pirate factions, in regards to how they would help one of more empires out. (including, but not limited to Angel Cartel, Serpentis, Mordus Legion, Khanid Kingdom)


The exclusion of pirate/non-aligned faction navies for this run was made to make comparisons simpler - a pirate-faction showdown would be interresting as well though and is definetly worth considering, if this goes well.

Sign up to write an expert-review on the respective navies is open until sunday 22.05. 12:00 GMT.

An experts review should contain:

Analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of main fleet ships (example: Dominix, Armageddon, Scorpion and Tempest). Note, they're all t1 since navy/fleet issue ships are aparently limited in numbers**.

Analysis of the benefits and drawbacks of the navies culture, especially regarding crew morale and proficiency, as well as leadership structure.

A tl:dr for the above and a conclusion.


I'm interrested to see if we can pull this off - and what the results might be.

Cheers, Lae'.



* It's a great beer and pretzel show for when you're done playing risk and drinking beer, especially the following, drunk, discussion. Thank God you don't remember much of it the next morning 

** (possible proof: absensek of navy ships during the parade to Jamyl I. corronation, the descriptions of some navy ships (i.e. imperial navy Apocalypse)

[Saede Riordan]

I'm in.

[Seriphyn]

Wahey, I have all of Fed PF embedded in my soul from writing that guide so \o/

As an aside, I'm not sure in-game stats for the ships is a good reference point...unless it was just for the sake of this. Caldari ships are supposed to be "best evah" but they suck for PvP mostly.

[Saede Riordan]

it might be good to standardize the numbers before the 'battles' so we know when we go into the debates what ships we have to work with. Also, how they are fit would be very important, would fits be standardized, or would we be able to fit whatever we want? And what sorts of logistics would we have available? Could we do cross-grid warps, deploy bubbles, etc etc? Is the battle taking place in empty space, near a station, near a planet, in deadspace, at a stargate...all these things matter.

[Silas Vitalia]

Should we base our assumptions on current PVP balancing? If that's the case the Gallente and Caldari main fleets are in for some trouble.

If we go PF wise will be much more interesting.

[Saede Riordan]

Well, we need some standard of balance that everyone can agree on.

[Silas Vitalia]

I say to keep it fun we go based on PF knowledge of the respective cultures, tactics, and other issues, ignoring game-balancing issues for the most part, which change drastically every few years anyway.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I'd be interested in this, though given the lack of hard information it may be quite difficult indeed.

[Graanvlokkie]

Should we base our assumptions on current PVP balancing? If that's the case the Gallente and Caldari main fleets are in for some trouble.

Enter 100 falcons from left stage.

[Silas Vitalia]

Should we base our assumptions on current PVP balancing? If that's the case the Gallente and Caldari main fleets are in for some trouble.

Enter 100 falcons from left stage.

No large engagements use any significant number of falcons, you know that They are extremely squishy and cant handle any sort of alpha strikes from large fleets. The smaller the number of participants the more effective falcons are.

Tengus though, in the right hands are completely ridiculous. Having had some of my larger fleets obliterated by 60 tengus with 30 scimitars behind them, I can tell you they are extremely, extremely mean in the right hands.

[Inara Subaka]

I'm up for it. I can realistically do Caldari/Amarr/Gallente (in that order of strength of knowledge) and can point out a few things about the republic. And I can give combat analysis of the Gurista, as well as a combat analysis and (limited to PF) political breakdown for the Cartel as I know it.

I love the idea too, it should help show the benefit/drawback analysis of eahc.

Also, point of note: Caldari ships are not solo ships (with a few exceptions) but in a fleet they have some of the best synergy.

[orange]

I think it is very useful to define what the objective of the fleet is when discussing its capabilities and composition.  Gate camps & roams have the objective of doing as much is damage while taking as little as possible, but mining or convoy protection details care less for doing damage and more about making it as difficult as possible for the opposition to damage what is being defended.
 
Multiple people have provided what amounts to "Caldari suck at pvp lol," which is fair if you look at raw dps and ehp of individual ships without factoring in the impacts of ecm and logistics in a fight. There is a reason logistics ships are effectively banned from tourney play.

[Silas Vitalia]

These are the factors I will be focusing on in my writeup, and how they hinder or hurt each faction's military:

1. Duration of conflict. Day? week? Month? Year?
2. Breadth of conflict: Single location? Single planet? System-wide? Region wide? Multiple regions?
3. Scale of conflict. Patrols? Skirmishes? Thousands of ships?
4. Objectives of conflict. Raids? Logistics Disruption? Securing assets for exploitation (human or material)? Insurgency? Conquest? Scorched-Earth?

For me that will cover nearly all senarios and I'll have a nice matrix of which fleets perform best and worst under those conditions.

[Inara Subaka]

These are the factors I will be focusing on in my writeup, and how they hinder or hurt each faction's military:

1. Duration of conflict. Day? week? Month? Year?
2. Breadth of conflict: Single location? Single planet? System-wide? Region wide? Multiple regions?
3. Scale of conflict. Patrols? Skirmishes? Thousands of ships?
4. Objectives of conflict. Raids? Logistics Disruption? Securing assets for exploitation (human or material)? Insurgency? Conquest? Scorched-Earth?

For me that will cover nearly all senarios and I'll have a nice matrix of which fleets perform best and worst under those conditions.

This. A good breakdown of their capabilities is to cover what situations a fleet is strong and what situatgions a fleet will get it's ass handed to it; as well as the why's of each too.

Whoever is organizing this (Lae?), let me know what faction you want me to breakdown.