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[Casiella]

I've been thinking about this, what with a new start in Re-Awakened (see what I did there?) and all, particularly in the context of Hamish's post on Goals vs Motivations and whatnot. The tricky bit for me is to define the motivation for a goal. For example, in EVE, a common goal might include "money and power", perhaps with additional specific metrics attached. The relevant motivation, though, beyond simple greed/avarice, should ideally have a little more nuance to it, I'd think.

Thoughts?

[Seriphyn]

I'm not one hundred percent sure that all characters require motivations or ulterior intent for what they do. Seriphyn is continuing his career in the Fed military. Considering his feet are firmly routed in his country, as are his daughter's, it is all normal to him. I'm a British patriot only because I grew up here, and picking up a foreign cause or flag doesn't seen believable to me.

Similarly, internet moral standard aside, I would expect the concept of God NOT existing to the average Amarr commoner to be so alien and entrenched in their thinking, that it is impossible to see the world without that concept. Justify your character to your character's own context, not by any other standard

[Casiella]

Seri, motivations != ulterior motives. Ask "patriots" if they have motivations to serve their country -- or, in this case, I suppose, yourself. Why do you think that, effectively, worship of one's country is not a motivation?

[Cmdr Baxter]

Seri, motivations != ulterior motives. Ask "patriots" if they have motivations to serve their country -- or, in this case, I suppose, yourself. Why do you think that, effectively, worship of one's country is not a motivation?

From a military standpoint - considering that there are numerous ways to serve one's country other than being in uniform - "worship" is perhaps a little extreme. I have yet to meet the US Navy servicemember who feels that everything the country does is a hundred percent correct. (You should hear the grumbling about the government shutdown; and potential delay of our paychecks! )

I have however met plenty of people who show dedication to the country and its defense through reenlisting. Our contracts specify that we are obligated to serve for "X" number of years, and then we can either walk out the door or reenlist. People do not leave the Navy after 10 years (why? halfway to retirement): you either leave after your first reenlistment is up or get out at 20+. And that means sucking it up and dealing with everything that comes with the job, knowing there is a very good chance that someday, somewhere, someone might take a shot at you.

So yes, there is motivation in the military. It's just passive, and we call it "dedication," not "worship." (And the marines call it "loving a foxhole." )

[Casiella]

Sorry, Baxter, I should have been clearer.

I do not claim that every military person has the same motivations, not by a long shot. I've never been in the military, but like most people I have lots of friends and family members who currently do serve or have in the past.

But underlying at least some of the jingoism found in some subgroups (within and without the military) lies a certain amount of worshipfulness. And, from what I know of Seriphyn-c, that might describe him.

Apologies for my lack of clarity leading to overgeneralized falsehood.

[Cmdr Baxter]

Ah, I see where you're going now. May I submit that perhaps "pride" is a better word choice than "worshipfulness"?

Every military servicemember out there wants to believe that their weapon systems are the best. Their leadership is better than perceived or real enemies. They will be the ones to end a conflict on their country's terms. To use a practical example: on my last deployment I had blind faith/pride in the abilities of our weapon systems every time we went into the Straits of Hormuz. I, and a lot of other people on board the Nimitz, knew that there was no way Iran was going to f--- with a carrier battle group.

Or let me just use this to do the talking. (I'm not the author, by the way.)

All this being said - yes, I know I'm quibbling over words - I certainly believe that Seriphyn might have more than a little trace of pride in the Federation military. Pride in many ways is a motivating factor. And pride doesn't necessarily have to be an "on display" item - at least not to the servicemember. When I go home on leave my mother never ceases to comment on how much I've changed in the last four years, thanks to the military, and I'm quite sure that I wouldn't chatter up that much of a storm if I didn't have some sense of pride in the US military.

[Casiella]

TBH, I think the worshipfulness is far, FAR more common outside of the military than inside of it. And occasionally, at least with some individuals, it extends to something akin to worship of the service members themselves. And it often works in conjunction with symbols: a flag, a national anthem, etc.

[Cmdr Baxter]

I agree. The military has gotten its share of bad raps over the years, but over the last 7-8 years American society has done a remarkable turnaround when it comes to supporting the troops. It's almost as if being seen as "unsupportive" is seen as anti-patriotic. (Not that I'm objecting mind you: getting the bag fee waived at the airline ticket counter when I flash my ID is always a great thing. )

[Casiella]

* Casiella turns back to talking about, you know, EVE stuffz.

So turn that into an EVE thing: can that be a motivation for somebody? I don't see why not.

[Saede Riordan]

I'm not one hundred percent sure that all characters require motivations or ulterior intent for what they do. Seriphyn is continuing his career in the Fed military. Considering his feet are firmly routed in his country, as are his daughter's, it is all normal to him. I'm a British patriot only because I grew up here, and picking up a foreign cause or flag doesn't seen believable to me.

Similarly, internet moral standard aside, I would expect the concept of God NOT existing to the average Amarr commoner to be so alien and entrenched in their thinking, that it is impossible to see the world without that concept. Justify your character to your character's own context, not by any other standard

No, Seri, you're right, not ever character outright needs motivations, as I'd said, Nikita before me coming up with some, just did things because she could, because she was immortal and had no one stopping her. But at a certain point, you box yourself out of RP, you make things more shallow I find. If your character is forced to leave their comfort zone for some reason, then things get interesting.