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Regarding Playstyles
Julianni Avala:
I had a question for those of you that have been here for a while.
This has been a topic in the Kickstarting Caldari Rp thread, so I figured I'd bring it over here to see what you all feel about it.
I've noticed as of late that there is quite the divide between people who pvp and roleplay, and people who roleplay and do other things (or don't, for that matter).
My question is this: why is it such an issue for either side? EVE has so many ways of playing it. Why should someone who roleplays exclusively look down on someone who goes out and pvps? And vice versa, why do people who pvp look down on those who do not?
I sincerely do not understand what the problem is.
As personal experience, in my time joining the roleplay scene, I am exclusively a role player. I do a bit of exploration here and there, and maybe a bit of FW or pirating on alts. But otherwise, I prefer to engage in the roleplay aspect of this game. I constantly get the feeling that, because of this preference of playing, there are some who disregard my characters simply because they do not have a nice and shiny killboard.
Granted, it doesn't and shouldn't matter what other people think oocly, as the idea is to stay ic and if your character doesn't go out and do these things for X reason, then that's just the way it is. But I have to admit that the ooc discomfort due to this is hard to ignore.
The way I view any roleplay community is that it is a precious thing. That people should try to respect one another and their differences, as we're all different people, of course. We all enjoy different characters, themes, etc. Disagreements are going to happen. Arguments will take place, and there will be some who are just difficult. But really, aren't we all here for the same thing? To have fun and/or get away from the stresses of real life? Have fun with collaborative stories? I get that this is a very naive view, and I'm aware that there will be no 100% happy little family. I know that a perfect place isn't possible.
But speaking as someone new to this community? It feels very divided and uncomfortable.
What can someone who is relatively new do to avoid getting burnt out and discouraged from this? And when it comes to someone who doesn't necessarily pvp all the time, what can be done to get rid of the discomfort I mentioned earlier?
kalaratiri:
There are various issues around people claiming to be undefeatable warriors, but then literally never undock.
Eve is a very special game in that anything you chose to build or fly is placed in an environment where other players can interact with it whether you'd like them too or not. Some players avoid this by simply saying what they are doing without ever actually committing to it. Whether this is due to fear of material loss or "interruption" of their RP, the fact is it isolates anyone who might want to get involved in a more practical fashion.
Nobody says "if you don't have a good killboard you can't be a good roleplayer", but if people wish to claim to be good at combat it becomes a lot more believable if they can back it up.
There is another side to this as well. MITG's war against Sanxing and the destruction of the Sanxing astrahus was widely and heavily criticised in the RP community as "Out of Character action", seemingly for no other reason than because it was a PVP act and didn't include page after page of talking.
As someone who was present for both the planning and execution of that war, there most certainly was an IC reason, and also absolutely no reason to go shouting it from the rooftops. If people wanted to know why we were doing it, they could have approached us IC and asked. Instead, many of us received blanket bans from channels because of our "OOC actions" (this has since been dealt with), without even an attempt to find out our reasons.
My personal feeling on the matter are that people who don't pvp should not feel that they must simply relocate their entire RP to inside a station! Space is big, there are lots of amazing places for a great story to be told. It's not nearly as dangerous as you might think either.
At the same time, RP'ers who do engage in pvp should not see themselves somehow as "above" those who do not. Pvp is an incredibly useful tool in RP, and it comes in far more forms than "honourable 1v1 duelling combat". Nauplius' structures are a wonderful example of this. Your killboard does not actually make you a better roleplayer, it just helps back you up if you claim to be a badass pilot. (Due to the way killboards work, it does not actually make you a baddass pilot either).
Be nice to each other and make some stories!
Rinai Vero:
Since you brought it up...
I don't think you're accurately representing the criticism about Sanxing. I wasn't around, but that drama was one of the first things I heard about when I started reconnecting with my EVE friends.
MITG's stated IC rationale of "defending our buddy's honor" is pretty weak tea compared to the OOC "easy Citadel kill / trolling" narrative from critics. Add to that the fact that Sanxing hardly claimed to be "undefeatable warriors" IC, they were a corp of new players with a non-PVP humanitarian / political RP playstyle. You basically wardecced the Disciples of Ston, and then bragged about winning.
If anything, MITG seems to be the risk averse party, as your organization didn't / doesn't have assets in space subject to retaliation.
So ya, your unasked for and disproportionate PVP response killed what had been interesting RP for both I-RED and Sanxing and drove an active RP participant from the game in disgust. GG.
Rinai Vero:
That bit said, I do agree in general that in a game like EVE it's not good RP practice to claim an impressive combat background for your character without doing some PVP.
That ought to be fine, because there's plenty of stuff to do in space that isn't PVP combat, and plenty of other stuff for an RP character to be good at. You can be a scientist, and explorer, and industrialist... whatever. I'm of the opinion that the RP community as a whole is benefitted by having a variety of different playstyles / philosophies represented. Nobody wants the EVE RP scene to be nothing but kbstats and epeen measurement contests.
kalaratiri:
--- Quote from: Rinai Vero on 06 May 2017, 04:54 ---Since you brought it up...
I don't think you're accurately representing the criticism about Sanxing. I wasn't around, but that drama was one of the first things I heard about when I started reconnecting with my EVE friends.
MITG's stated IC rationale of "defending our buddy's honor" is pretty weak tea compared to the OOC "easy Citadel kill / trolling" narrative from critics.
--- End quote ---
Why is it any less valid?
--- Quote from: Rinai Vero on 06 May 2017, 04:54 ---Add to that the fact that Sanxing hardly claimed to be "undefeatable warriors" IC, they were a corp of new players with a non-PVP humanitarian / political RP playstyle. You basically wardecced the Disciples of Ston, and then bragged about winning.
--- End quote ---
I have never once claimed that they pretended to be "undefeatable warriors". Totally different point from a different part of my post.
We actually took great care not to brag. We had a strict rule of "complete local silence" during the war, and made a single post/thread afterwards detailing what had happened. We had and still have a great deal of respect for Electus Matari's efforts to provide military aid to Sanxing. The destruction of the Citadel was not an inevitability either.
--- Quote from: Rinai Vero on 06 May 2017, 04:54 ---If anything, MITG seems to be the risk averse party, as your organization didn't / doesn't have assets in space subject to retaliation.
--- End quote ---
Yes we do. Quite a few of them, if people bothered to look.
--- Quote from: Rinai Vero on 06 May 2017, 04:54 ---So ya, your unasked for and disproportionate PVP response killed what had been interesting RP for both I-RED and Sanxing and drove an active RP participant from the game in disgust. GG.
--- End quote ---
It was not wholly unasked for, although perhaps not from any party you have mentioned.
Why should we use anything other than our full capabilities to complete an objective?
If Xun had got in contact with any of us even once, he would have discovered that we were perfectly open to negotiation, and quitting the game was an unnecessary overreaction.
Obviously, as a group that uses pvp as a means of RP, we're actually just monsters :roll:
--- Quote from: Rinai Vero on 06 May 2017, 04:54 ---I wasn't around
--- End quote ---
You could have stopped here.
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