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[Mizhara]

Hmm, I'm sorry to hear that. My own faction being ignored entirely and damn near blocked out of the developments is one thing if at least what's being done benefits others. Of course, I disagree with the notion that the Amarr Empire shouldn't be portrayed as religious-fanatic-nutbags, because that's exactly what I've seen since my first days in the game, both from the PF and the players. The IGS and in-game channels have pretty much had only that from the Amarr side, if you're not on the inside yourself, so the WH40K portrayal from the actors seem very consistent with what the players themselves portray in public.

As for quick change in the Empire, that's just the unfortunate reality of this being a game manifesting. We don't actually have several centuries of real time to see changes happen in this game, so (necessary) changes will unfortunately have to be somewhat abrupt.

I think you're a bit quick to throw out "one-sided view of the Amarr", though. That there'll be difference in opinion how factions are portrayed and how they should be portrayed happens for all four and the outlaws. I'm a little more of the opinion that you can't really have it both ways. Amarr are very much based on theocracy, religion, zealotry and so on, which makes it a bit odd if you're also going to ignore the downsides of this kind of society. The Caldari have the downsides of hyper-capitalism down pat, and the Fed has the obvious issues their hyper-"freedom" brings down upon them. There needs to be balance in how these societies are portrayed and all four needs to pay the price for their particular fields of "excellence".

For the hyper-religious Empire, that means zealotry, religious fanaticism and so on. That's pretty much exactly what we get from the players already, so I can't fault the actors for consistency.

Besides, given how utterly stupid they've portrayed officials from the other factions, I'm not entirely sure what else could be expected.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I'm not saying that the other factions are protrayed any better by CCP. Rather I personally think CCP consistently is bad at storytelling and portraying all factions in a believable, nuanced and balanced way. That they place more attention at certain factions at one point in time and next to no attention to the others doesn't help with this either: Not the factions they ignore but neither the ones they pay attention to.

[Calliste Dauvienne]

You've got it the wrong way around. CCP doesn't persecute any factions, they just favor one or two at a time. They've just never seemed to get the hang of including all four into any storyline, and even when they do two at a time they favor one over the other. Lately it's the Amarr getting all the love, both with the Dark Eldar Jove Drifters and the Heir trials arc etc.

Even if anyone wanted to be the underdog, it's hard to be one when you're not even in the game dejour. It requires participation, which currently means "play Amarr".

Eh, having experienced it myself I honestly just think there's a tendency to get all eschatological once a certain level of bittervet has been reached -- "I'm not enjoying the game anymore, so no one else can, and to start I'll tell people why everything is terrible and shit."

It's not even really anything to do with RP but I think more once people have done the same content and reach a dilemma where on the hand they have invested into a gameplay choice and people while also having reached a point of boredom or lack of interest with that gameplay/content.

Roleplayers will start saying the lore is terrible and shit; pvpers will start saying the meta is terrible and shit; pvers will start saying missions/incursions/drifters is terrible and shit, etc.

Thing is, if the only visible discussions are a bunch of bittervets talking about how the game is terrible and shit then why would people who do enjoy the game want to participate in that kind of environment in the first place?

If it seems most discussions on backstage are people talking about why the lore is shit, CCP devs are shit, and roleplay is shit then why would anyone who wants to have fun... well, give a shit to enter those discussions or start any?

[Mizhara]

Why indeed. Honestly though, I don't really see how it's anyone's job to blow sunshine and happiness up the arse of anyone else. These are pretty legitimate issues people are having with CCP and the way the game is going, and just ignoring it in favor of a glassy grin isn't going to do anyone any favors.

If you have positive experiences and discussions in mind, you should probably post them. Complaining about complaining isn't going to reduce complaining.

[Calliste Dauvienne]

Well if people feel the need to have a whinge then why not create an entire thread dedicated for that express purpose instead of trying to turn every discussion into a personal axe to grind?

The question posed here in this thread was, "Is there a new OOC forum up" and the apparent inactivity of discussion. I simply pointed out that if every discussion didn't devolve into the provision of Schadenfreude and salt, there might be more of it and of a higher quality than, "I feel CCP hates my faction and I feel the need to express this opinion at any and every opportunity I am able."

[Silas Vitalia]

This thread is going places, fast 

[Mizhara]

This thread is going places, fast 

Mmhm.

Well if people feel the need to have a whinge then why not create an entire thread dedicated for that express purpose instead of trying to turn every discussion into a personal axe to grind?

The question posed here in this thread was, "Is there a new OOC forum up" and the apparent inactivity of discussion. I simply pointed out that if every discussion didn't devolve into the provision of Schadenfreude and salt, there might be more of it and of a higher quality than, "I feel CCP hates my faction and I feel the need to express this opinion at any and every opportunity I am able."

You may not like it, but providing a reason for why there's less roleplay discussion on the board is pretty much exactly what you could expect when the question is being answered.

[Lyn Farel]

Well if people feel the need to have a whinge then why not create an entire thread dedicated for that express purpose instead of trying to turn every discussion into a personal axe to grind?

The question posed here in this thread was, "Is there a new OOC forum up" and the apparent inactivity of discussion. I simply pointed out that if every discussion didn't devolve into the provision of Schadenfreude and salt, there might be more of it and of a higher quality than, "I feel CCP hates my faction and I feel the need to express this opinion at any and every opportunity I am able."

Well, to be perfectly honest with ourselves, when something is dead/dying/collapsing because of negative reasons, then it was to be expected for them to get out of the can of worms once again.

I expected it as soon as I read the OP, and yeah, I indulged on them, mea culpa. I tried to explain why we are in such a state to my eyes, and I will certainly not change my opinion for the sake of politically correct discussion..

Now then, I think CCP actors have stated their intentions (and how they dislike TonyG fiction and want to get rid of it), and what they seem to do goes in that direction. However, and I can't change my tastes on the new storyline and I don't feel that it's especially better than what we had in TEA. We have some great wiki articles and work from Mercury folks, and overall, the infodumps and lore fiction is really good. I think the crux of the problem lies in the portrayal. I just think that CCP are terrible at GM-ing and roleplay, and that's the issue.

Look at the trials for example. That's a really good incentive, and rather innovative. The storytelling around, however, is grotesque.


Edit : and yes, again, I think there is a huge divide between the current lore afficionados that do not RP like us, or the same way, and the heavy RPers of that community. And we are the minority. CCP don't cater to us.

[Lyn Farel]

On the Amarr = W40K, I think there might be a conflation between several things.

Saying that the only thing that transpires from Amarr player interpretation is W40K is rather sad to hear since equating the Amarr with the Imperium to begin with, is what I would consider bad RP and understanding of the lore in the first place, and that means that we Amarr loyalists, are thus doing a piss poor job at it. Well, if that's the case, I don't know what I could add to that. We will have to try to do better i suppose...

It also means that all the progressive groups are non existing entities, void, irrelevant, and that the only Amarrian thing is PIE Inc (who are not even doing W40K interpretation by the way).

I for one think that most of the main RP groups have been answering pretty magnificently on the matter of the Trials, playing their roles like we would expect of good roleplay (especially Khanid loyalists and Eidety).

Overall I think the Trials are a success, and the only gripe I have is like Nico, we fall again in the CCP's stretched mysteries that never get explained and turn the world into a confusion of endlessly cascading improbable feats. Either they don't find the explanations themselves and do it anyway, or either they don't feel the need to make the world more believable because to them, it already is. That can also be either because we have a fundamental disagreement on what is believable and what is not, and what they want for the story and what we don't, or either because they fell into the usual trap of the author not explaining enough for the simple reason that the author already got all the answers, and everything seems perfectly fine to him while it's not to the audience (i'm pretty sure there is a trope for that).

[Elmund Egivand]

The fellows who thought that Amarr = Imperium need to read the lore more closely.

My impression of the Amarr Empire based on Source and other lore tidbits is that the Empire society is much closer to a mix of Vatican and Holy Roman Empire (In that the Empire is far less centralised than initially thought and is more of a collection of Princes. The Heirs can be treated as Electors, just the voting is done by fighting each other and that they killed themselves if they lose), with 14-15th century sensibilities and very enlightened understanding in S.T.E.M. Kinda like they had entered a Renaissance period that was still ongoing all the way until past the space age.

The Imperium on the other hand is a deliberate pessimistic take on all the downsides of a theocracy, where all the atrocities done in the name of religion is not only done regularly with no oversight, the atrocious acts are even justified by the setting. It's a different beast compared to the Amarr Empire. 

[Calliste Dauvienne]

I expected it as soon as I read the OP, and yeah, I indulged on them, mea culpa. I tried to explain why we are in such a state to my eyes, and I will certainly not change my opinion for the sake of politically correct discussion..

I'm not really talking about political correctness as much as remembering the old chatsubo days where it seemed the only discussion that ever happened was in its bitching section. If the only discourse appears to be particularly negative in nature then that to me limits broader engagement because why would people want to enter into a potentially toxic environment?

As for the portrayal of the Empire itself, well, most of the event/dev actors seem to be in positions of authority and importance so why wouldn't they be... you know, imperious about it?

Although honestly I've been privy to a lot of expressions of opinion over the years that begin like strawman arguments of:

"Everyone thinks my chosen faction is like [Insert negative stereotypes of chosen faction] and this is why everything is terrible."

From all sides, that at this point I can but only shrug at it because I don't know who this everyone is and CCP can only provide the lore but it can't make people read it.

All the Amarr characters I have interacted with such as Lunarisse Aspenstar, Samira Kernher, and Gaven Lok'ri have never given me the impression they come from a grimdark space theocracy full of spehss mareens, myself.

Though I probably don't have a bigger picture of it since I'm a self-imposed pariah. 

[Lyn Farel]

I can't say I disagree on that..

[Silas Vitalia]

CCP 'borrowed' liberally from many sci fi IPs, but 40k would be farthest down the list, if it were even there at all (imo it is not). 

CCP IP development started with mainlining Babylon 5, Syndicate, etc, but I don't believe 40k was on that list.

Anyway way off topic.  Yes forum is still here but more coasting along than soaring with the eagles

[Nicoletta Mithra]

If the only discourse appears to be particularly negative in nature then that to me limits broader engagement because why would people want to enter into a potentially toxic environment?

I'm not quite sure how you make this argumentative jump from 'discourse that appears negative in nature' to 'a potentially toxic environment'. Just because people voice their frustration or critique or deny that everything is bright and shiny it doesn't follow that the environment is toxic. I don't know where you're from, but where I live an environment is percieved as toxic if you're not allowed to complain - or simply don't have the time for it because you're busy solving the problems.

"Everyone thinks my chosen faction is like [Insert negative stereotypes of chosen faction] and this is why everything is terrible."

This is only a straw man if it is not true. Also, unless I'm mistaken, no one here gave that argument anyway...

[Calliste Dauvienne]

If the only discourse appears to be particularly negative in nature then that to me limits broader engagement because why would people want to enter into a potentially toxic environment?

I'm not quite sure how you make this argumentative jump from 'discourse that appears negative in nature' to 'a potentially toxic environment'. Just because people voice their frustration or critique or deny that everything is bright and shiny it doesn't follow that the environment is toxic. I don't know where you're from, but where I live an environment is percieved as toxic if you're not allowed to complain - or simply don't have the time for it because you're busy solving the problems.

"Everyone thinks my chosen faction is like [Insert negative stereotypes of chosen faction] and this is why everything is terrible."

This is only a straw man if it is not true. Also, unless I'm mistaken, no one here gave that argument anyway...

All I'm saying is that there is a difference between criticism and when criticism becomes the prevalent pattern of discussion. For myself it just feeds on itself: those not interested in constant criticism will recuse themselves from discussion until it reaches a point that the only people participating are those with their axes to grind in public.

Then any new players or those interested in roleplay or lore discussion will come and probably think, "Wow, this forum just seems like a bunch of people whinging all the time."