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the Fleet Coordination Commission or FCORD was created in direct response to Nation Incursions. It main purpose is to alert of Incursions and help marshal fleets to repel them.

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Author Topic: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED  (Read 5666 times)

Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #30 on: 03 Jun 2015, 11:28 »

Consequences? For the Minmatar? Surely you're joking.

In all seriousness, no, there were absolutely zero consequences for the Republic for that that have been made clear to players, as far as I know.

Agreed. They seem to have completely bought the idea that the Elder Fleet was absolutely nothing to do with the Republic. Now, we know Shakor was owned by the Elders and not the other way around, but it's hard to imagine a shadow fleet constructed in America being used to attack Russia and the US ducking the fallout (literally?) by claiming this was the 'Freedom Fleet' and that it had nothing to do with them...
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #31 on: 03 Jun 2015, 13:08 »

Even if that member is also a CONCORD signatory ?

Anyway, there is also the stretched excuse that it wasn't technically the Republic that attacked, even if the funds to build that fleet were originally destined to them.

Anyway, CONCORD/DED PF rarely makes sense.
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Shal Novastorm

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #32 on: 03 Jun 2015, 17:40 »

I just find the idea of CONCORD being so absolutely stupid from top to bottom there were zero voices in power going 'hey this was clearly actually a Republic attack, they just weren't SO stupid to do it without a layer of smokescreen keeping them safe' utterly baffling.
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Silver Night

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #33 on: 03 Jun 2015, 17:57 »

At least in the modern world, it takes a pretty thin pretext to give diplomatic cover. See: Ukraine, anywhere the US sends 'advisers' since Vietnam, etc. And there are a few reasons it works. A big one is generally the other side wants the cover there too. For CONCORD, that means it gives them an out so they don't have to try and start a war with the Republic. So everyone goes along with the useful fiction.

Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #34 on: 03 Jun 2015, 17:59 »

I just find the idea of CONCORD being so absolutely stupid from top to bottom there were zero voices in power going 'hey this was clearly actually a Republic attack, they just weren't SO stupid to do it without a layer of smokescreen keeping them safe' utterly baffling.

I just found it amazing that their utterly critical C&C system had one control node & no backups. I mean when could they have taken the thing down for maintenance for a start? Oh, hang on, they do. At least once a day.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #35 on: 03 Jun 2015, 18:42 »

At least in the modern world, it takes a pretty thin pretext to give diplomatic cover. See: Ukraine, anywhere the US sends 'advisers' since Vietnam, etc. And there are a few reasons it works. A big one is generally the other side wants the cover there too. For CONCORD, that means it gives them an out so they don't have to try and start a war with the Republic. So everyone goes along with the useful fiction.

I think the difference is nobody's pretending we're not there. To extend the analogy, the Republic pulled the equivalent of what Russia is doing in Ukraine ("no, no, we've got absolutely nothing to do with this massive military buildup... never mind it was all built in our factories, manned by our people" etc...).

Yeah, I think having the other empires immediately turn on and invade the Republic would have been massive overkill and not good for story or gameplay, but that nobody even called for sanctions is a little jarring. Same criticisms can be made regarding the Caldari and Amarr (Kador's incursion).
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Shal Novastorm

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #36 on: 03 Jun 2015, 19:13 »

Yea in the real world when that stuff happens we go 'ok we legally can't call you on it but we know you're doing it, and we're gonna do what we can to punish you for that'. I agree it'd be absurd to suddenly make Republic the kill on sight faction but really the fact that literally nothing at all happened is silly.
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Elmund Egivand

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #37 on: 03 Jun 2015, 19:42 »

Yea in the real world when that stuff happens we go 'ok we legally can't call you on it but we know you're doing it, and we're gonna do what we can to punish you for that'. I agree it'd be absurd to suddenly make Republic the kill on sight faction but really the fact that literally nothing at all happened is silly.

And suddenly, I understand where the Republic Fleet got the guts to shove a battlefleet into Federation space, resulting in Colelie where their dreads got slaughtered by Moroses in close range.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #38 on: 03 Jun 2015, 19:50 »

I would have much preferred no Elders, and actually just the regular Republic secretly building the giant force to rescue their people.

Fiddle the plot however necessary to not have all out war immediately follow, but I think it would be much more Minmatar to have Maleatu Shakor starving half the republic to secretly fund a giant 'fuck you' fleet for fifty years to shit on one of the Amarr home systems and rescue millions of Matari.

And it actually would have been much, much better for Amarr RP if there were no deus ex machina.  If they got beaten, and they got beaten badly in one single ambush fight, (not a long war the Republic would certainly lose) and the Matari make it out with their people and somehow CONCORD stops a war from breaking out after.   I think much better for Amarr PF character growth as a race to be caught flat-footed resting on their laurels and the Matari actually never forgetting, constantly plotting for decades to strike back and get their people out.

Let it play out afterwards that the Amarr get all 'reclaimy' and wake the sleeping giant to crush the republic and then the republic has to reap what they've sown, but I think the Amarr home fleet being caught off guard in a surprise dreadnaught flotilla for a few hours to rescue all those Matari without Jamyl win sauce would have been worth it. 
« Last Edit: 03 Jun 2015, 19:54 by Silas Vitalia »
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Shal Novastorm

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #39 on: 03 Jun 2015, 20:11 »

Yea gotta agree there, it'd be more interesting for Amarr and Rep RP to have it just straight up 'oh so I guess it's back on huh'
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Elmund Egivand

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #40 on: 03 Jun 2015, 21:16 »

Yea gotta agree there, it'd be more interesting for Amarr and Rep RP to have it just straight up 'oh so I guess it's back on huh'

Anything that results in gigantic Typhoon on Armageddon mass-orgy action is always welcome.
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Tabor Murn

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #41 on: 04 Jun 2015, 09:07 »

Yea in the real world when that stuff happens we go 'ok we legally can't call you on it but we know you're doing it, and we're gonna do what we can to punish you for that'. I agree it'd be absurd to suddenly make Republic the kill on sight faction but really the fact that literally nothing at all happened is silly.

And suddenly, I understand where the Republic Fleet got the guts to shove a battlefleet into Federation space, resulting in Colelie where their dreads got slaughtered by Moroses in close range.

Colelie worked out perfectly. The Republic got exactly what they wanted and they only had to trade a few dreadnaughts for it. The Federation finally started paying attention to the Republic's demands, but since they won the fight, didn't feel the need to retaliate or break up the alliance.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #42 on: 04 Jun 2015, 09:17 »

^^^^
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #43 on: 04 Jun 2015, 12:31 »

You are not serious, are you ?
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Samira Kernher

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Re: Erry Day Jamyl Trollin DED
« Reply #44 on: 04 Jun 2015, 13:07 »

No, that's perfectly serious.

Colelie was a statement. And it worked perfectly. Anyone who thinks it was supposed to be a conventional battle really doesn't get Minmatar.
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