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Author Topic: Strength of EvE Weaponry.  (Read 6761 times)

Ayallah

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #15 on: 06 May 2015, 21:27 »

DD's do three million damage with max skills. 

Also if each damage is worth roughly 4,000 megatons...

"The total global nuclear arsenal is about 30,000 nuclear warheads with a destructive capacity of 7,000 megatons or 7 gigatons (7,000 million tons) of TNT."

According to wikipedia. 

So does the earth do like 2DPS total?
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Integra Valentine

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #16 on: 06 May 2015, 21:28 »

Earth does 1DPS.. But that is cause it only ever has to fire one volley :D

Go Earth! It's your Birthday!
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Vikarion

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #17 on: 06 May 2015, 23:14 »

I take the figures for the Imperial Star Destroyer from StarDestroyer.net, which I think is being unreasonably kind to them, as the author uses the methodology of accepting only lore that points towards a higher power level, and ignores evidence for under powered Star Wars weapons. For example, in the battle over Coruscant in Revenge of the Sith, taking a turbolaser hit in a gun bay produces a relatively mild explosion, and leaves several clone troopers alive. Similarly, in Return of the Jedi, an A-Wing hitting the Executor at a relatively slow speed (certainly nothing like relativistic) does far more damage than a turbolaser bolt. Or when, in The Phantom Menace, Anakin uses a fighter to kill droids in the hanger, they are merely dismember, not vaporized as one would expect from the calculations at SSDnet.

Nonetheless, taking them, a Star Destroyer with 60 turbolaser batteries will put out around 1900 megatons every second. That's pretty impressive. Of course, my Hawk frigate, fit with light missiles, puts out around 880,000 megatons every second. Of course, a Hawk frigate is something around the size of a C-141 Starlifter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-141_Starlifter), but still. Or, in other words, a Star Destroyer, if I have my math right, does around .5 dps.

If you want something like a Star Destroyer in the EvE universe, though, to be fair, you need to compare it to something like a Raven battleship. Let's say that the Empire attacks the State. A Raven Navy Issue, with CN Ballistic Control Systems, CN ammo, and CN launchers, but no drones, does 1,100 DPS with level V skills. Lesser skills will take it down a bit, but not much. It has a volley damage of 7,868. Or, to put it another way, a Caldari Navy Raven will output 4,400,000 megatons per second, with each volley delivering 31,472,000 megatons. The .5 DPS per second of the Star Destroyer will probably not overcome natural shield regeneration under any circumstance.

With this sort of disparity, the alleged vast numbers of the Empire are entirely moot. In fact, if an EvE dreadnought managed to get into the SW-verse, it would be a super-weapon.

Sorry, my post got cut off somehow. Anyway, what I was going to say is that a war between any of the major EvE entities and the entire Star Wars universe would end very quickly, and very badly for the Star Wars side. That's even if the EvE entity is one of the pirate factions. If it was, say, the State, which is, as of EvE:Source, the strongest non-Jovian entity in the cluster in military terms...well, you get the idea. Even EvE travel is faster and more efficient than Star Wars travel, if somewhat less flexible. Still, the empires have jump drives that don't need cynos.
« Last Edit: 06 May 2015, 23:41 by Vikarion »
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Integra Valentine

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #18 on: 06 May 2015, 23:21 »

A war between who? Don't leave me hanging!

(Will be edited at a later date)
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Vikarion

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #19 on: 06 May 2015, 23:37 »

Star Trek weapons appear to be rather under-powered. Or, rather, more sane.

A standard photon torpedo, according to Memory Alpha (Star Trek site), has a yield of around 64.4 megatons, but they are adjustable, so a Star Trek photon torpedo probably does 0.01 to 0.04 damage. This is if we use canonical sources (the shows and movies).

I couldn't find information on quantum torpedoes. Phasers seem to be pretty weak, as an entire phaser bank (albeit a small one) could be powered by a 4.2 gigawatt generator. That's a lot, sure, but it's not massive: the Three Gorges Dam in China, produces around 22.5 gigawatts.

Both the Trekkie and SW books/fiction/technical manuals are so wildly all over the place and contradictory that I am hesitant to use them at all. Picking and using any of them is essentially an exercise in selecting what you like. I would, however, argue that the understated damage effects in the SW movies are more demonstrative of low-powered weapons than some few other scenes are demonstrative of high-powered ones.

EvE, on the other hand, is pretty consistent with depicting very powerful weapons. Not totally - TonyG, as with everything else, considered technical detail something to be twisted around his railroad plot, whether or not he contradicted himself within his own book or contradicted everything outside it.

Still, we know that the Amarrians used Tachyon lasers to essentially destroy a planet. We have several other instances of major destruction caused by EvE weapons. And keeping a Leviathan over Caldari Prime doesn't even make sense if the Oblivion super-weapon couldn't destroy the planet.
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Integra Valentine

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #20 on: 06 May 2015, 23:46 »

Very true! This is fun, much better conversation then I get in my wormhole, haha!

I know the EVE universe is superior, but then you have to factor in the fact that the Jedi's would be a tough thing to beat, using boarding torperdo's and shit, mine control, suffocating a Capsuleer in his pod from 200km away in another ship, and since the universe would be side by side in this alternate train of thinking, Jedi's would be able to use Capsule tech, that wouldn't be good, imagine giant pods like Drop Pods from Warhammer, filled with empty soft clones like the Dusters use? They would just hit a single Titan with one and then they would have a Jedi with 99 lives..

One thing that has interested me, is does EVE have anything like that? i.e. Magic?
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Vikarion

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #21 on: 07 May 2015, 00:02 »

Very true! This is fun, much better conversation then I get in my wormhole, haha!

I know the EVE universe is superior, but then you have to factor in the fact that the Jedi's would be a tough thing to beat, using boarding torperdo's and shit, mine control, suffocating a Capsuleer in his pod from 200km away in another ship, and since the universe would be side by side in this alternate train of thinking, Jedi's would be able to use Capsule tech, that wouldn't be good, imagine giant pods like Drop Pods from Warhammer, filled with empty soft clones like the Dusters use? They would just hit a single Titan with one and then they would have a Jedi with 99 lives..

One thing that has interested me, is does EVE have anything like that? i.e. Magic?

Not unless you count Empress Jamyl Sarum, the heretical telepathic schizophrenic zombie savior princess. And yes, that title is completely accurate.

As for the Jedi, well, first, boarding torpedoes aren't going to work. I mean, they work just fine in Star Wars, because solid objects go through shields. In EvE, solid objects do not go through shields. At all. The image of the likely result brings to mind the phrase "bugs on a windshield".

As for killing capsuleers from 200km away, force powers seem to be attenuated by distance, and by line of site. Otherwise, why would Vader just squish the droids (C3P0 and R2D2) that escaped the Tantive IV? They were looking for them, after all. Or why wouldn't Vader just force-choke Luke during the Death Star run? Hell, if you could choke out opponents within a 200 km circumference, Vader could have just sat on the bridge of the Death Star and choked the pilot of every fighter that came up from Yavin.

Not to mention the fact that EvE has Dust 514 soldiers, and we know that Jedi are easily overwhelmed by numbers. Not to mention that EvE ground weapons are also orders of magnitude nastier than Star Wars ones. No, I think that a puny laser sword and the ability to do magic tricks are going to fare badly against a railgun firing solid rounds at relativistic velocities. Hell, forget deflecting it - even the shockwave will rip the flesh from your bones. That's why Dusties wear all that armor, after all.
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Integra Valentine

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #22 on: 07 May 2015, 00:25 »

As for the rest of that.. I like how you think, especially tearing there skin of there bones, but you do have to think that in an environment like DUST the Jedi wouldn't need numbers, they would just re spawn like DUST'ers, which the Jedi's would do if it was possible in order to spread "Peace" forever, but Jedi's tricks are all with there swords and shit, remember, Jedi's can become "Invisible" by messing with peoples heads, and one dude with a sword in a hall way beats 50 guys with meter plus long assault rifles, even more so when you add in lightning and backflips.

Though, in a fire range set up, oh hell yeh, Jedi's would just be mowed down wave after wave, but on a battlefield there is cover, and then some Jedi's have those cool teleporting moves, and the stronger ones could just turn the tank guns on the DUST'ers.

And they do go through shields if they hit hard enough to deplete them, so that is why i used a Drop Pod as a reference, if the SW verse and EVE collided, safe bet the Jedi would use things like Citadel missiles as boarding vessels, no?

As for the Force, it doesn't always require them to see the person they want to kill.. I can recall stuf in the movies and books where it is done over quiet some range, and with a Jedi being a capsuleer (Lets just assume they would not waste the tech) he would have access to the CONCORD network, and hence a direct link to the other capsuleer, then you have those new Entosis links..

Dont get me wrong, a Caldari patrol would skull**** the entire empire armada, but doesn't mean there are variables that wouldn't effect that, don't you think?
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Gwen Ikiryo

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #23 on: 07 May 2015, 00:25 »

I don't think it's really fair to compare Eve to Star Wars, since Eve is (at least in lore) about the closest thing you'll get to hard sci-fi in a modern video game, and Star Wars is WW2 tech reskinned for space with wizards.
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Integra Valentine

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #24 on: 07 May 2015, 00:26 »

^ this, so hard, every day
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Vikarion

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #25 on: 07 May 2015, 00:45 »

Dont get me wrong, a Caldari patrol would skull**** the entire empire armada, but doesn't mean there are variables that wouldn't effect that, don't you think?

Not really, no. I mean, I actually agree with Gwen that comparing the two universes is not a serious project. Here, it's just for fun - what I was really concentrating upon was quantifiable damage for EvE weapons.

The point I would make about the Jedi, however, is that at most, there are a few hundred or a few thousand of them. And they aren't that powerful - Order 66 had Stormtroopers wiping them out. Compared to a DUST 514 trooper, an Imperial Stormtrooper is a fat, unarmored, slow moving target.

How are the Jedi going to get to be Dust clones? The procedure is complicated and expensive. The hardware is hard to make and had to be re-engineered from Sleeper tech. Even if a Jedi managed to get the tech or get himself implanted - assuming he's compatible in the first place - how is he going to build the factories to produce more of them for other Jedi, or the cloning centers needed to regenerate them? Will the Force even work once your brain is replaced by a machine? Don't forget that a Dustie body only lasts you a few months before you have to be re-cloned.

It's even worse with capsuleers. Becoming a capsuleer is incredibly dangerous. You have to have the right genetic profile, you have to pass many, many, many tests, and you face possible death, mindlock, or insanity during training. The process is long, complicated, and only about 5% of candidates make it through. You can't just hop into a capsule and go. And even if you could, where are you going to get those capsules?

As for hitting a shield hard enough, well, EvE ships don't allow damage bleed-through until down below 25%. how are the Jedi going to damage them enough for that? Where are they going to get a Citadel missile, either? A capsuleer in an EvE battleship would consider slaughtering both fleets at the Battle of Endor to be a trivial endeavor, and even if you somehow disabled or boarded his ship, he's still out of your line of sight. He'll just eject and warp off.

Still, it's entertaining momentarily to consider Jedi capsuleers, I suppose.  :P
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Integra Valentine

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #26 on: 07 May 2015, 00:49 »

"Still, it's entertaining momentarily to consider Jedi capsuleers, I suppose.  :P"

Tell me about it, haha!

But true, you bring up good and valid points, anyways, back to the weapons, what universe do you think would compare with EVE then? Maybe Homeworld? The Dreadnought in that (The one that looks like an assault rifle with a shit load of barrels) has a mega beam, from memory that almost caved in the face of what i think is the equivilant of a Super carrier, and it is pretty small, then you have those massive Jove like motherships..

I need to spend more times on the forums when the WH is empty! :D This is more fun then D-Scan, haha!
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Vikarion

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #27 on: 07 May 2015, 01:12 »

"Still, it's entertaining momentarily to consider Jedi capsuleers, I suppose.  :P"

Tell me about it, haha!

But true, you bring up good and valid points, anyways, back to the weapons, what universe do you think would compare with EVE then? Maybe Homeworld? The Dreadnought in that (The one that looks like an assault rifle with a shit load of barrels) has a mega beam, from memory that almost caved in the face of what i think is the equivilant of a Super carrier, and it is pretty small, then you have those massive Jove like motherships..

I need to spend more times on the forums when the WH is empty! :D This is more fun then D-Scan, haha!

Homeworld has some powerful weapons, however, I don't know of any way to quantify them to real life damage amounts, so I couldn't say.

However, I think the WH40K - which, incidentally, sits on the other side of the hard-to-soft scifi spectrum - probably has the best bet. WH40K ships, as you might expect in a universe where The Power of Awesomeness is the reigning consideration, are freakishly insane. Void shields operate pretty much like EvE shields - nearly full protection until they're gone. And WH40K ships can crack planets pretty quickly too, as so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67JpMyrOVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYPSg-Ab7Dc
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Jev North

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #28 on: 07 May 2015, 01:13 »

Seen another way, a megaton of TNT is on the upside of 4 petajoules of energy. Lasers would have to be doing really cool1 tricks to turn "mere" gigajoules of capacitor into that much energy.

(1: "free unlimited energy forever" cool)
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Vikarion

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Re: Strength of EvE Weaponry.
« Reply #29 on: 07 May 2015, 02:22 »

Seen another way, a megaton of TNT is on the upside of 4 petajoules of energy. Lasers would have to be doing really cool1 tricks to turn "mere" gigajoules of capacitor into that much energy.

(1: "free unlimited energy forever" cool)

Well, EvE lasers don't look like lasers, don't act like lasers, and, in some cases, aren't really called lasers as we know lasers. I mean, what is a "tachyon laser"?

They could be lasers, but given Amarrian tesseract capacitor technology (i.e., storing energy not only in physical space, but also in time), they could be very powerful indeed. But what they really look like is particle beams.
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