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[kalaratiri]

I think the problem is that people read the description of Minmatar, go "Oh cool! Lone wolf biker rebels!" and roll with that, and many become pirates, work for other factions, and other such "anti republic" angles. There arent a whole slew of "Anti Empire" Amarrians, and there certainly are a teeny minority of ones who preach abandonment of everything Amarrian, yet, that is precisely what the plurality of Minmatar ethnicity characters tend to do. If everyone in minny society was a "lone wolf", it wouldnt be a tribal society; it would be, well, exactly what RP depicts. I did midsummer events for the past 2 years, big Minny-centric parties. The first one had an OK turnout of maybe 20 people, I think 2 or 3 of whom were Minmatar. The second? I think 8 or so people came, and zero of them were from my own corp... and I think I had one other matari attendee this year, and one or two the first year. How many people show up when PIE throws a party? Oh, keep in mind, those two events are the only remotely Minny-oriented RP I had, save the odd short conversation in Summit with a person curious about religion.

I'd love to play eve again. I miss it. But I know all it would do is frustrate me, as everything about Minny atm just sucks. And frankly, I lack the resolve to try and "fix" it anymore. I've been trying for a long, long time. Suerte to whoever decides to pick up that torch.

A tribal society (and hence, RP) tends to only work if, you know, more than 1 person is involved. It grew lonely.

Say "fuck it" and join PYRE

[Lyn Farel]

I think the problem is that people read the description of Minmatar, go "Oh cool! Lone wolf biker rebels!" and roll with that, and many become pirates, work for other factions, and other such "anti republic" angles. There arent a whole slew of "Anti Empire" Amarrians, and there certainly are a teeny minority of ones who preach abandonment of everything Amarrian, yet, that is precisely what the plurality of Minmatar ethnicity characters tend to do. If everyone in minny society was a "lone wolf", it wouldnt be a tribal society; it would be, well, exactly what RP depicts. I did midsummer events for the past 2 years, big Minny-centric parties. The first one had an OK turnout of maybe 20 people, I think 2 or 3 of whom were Minmatar. The second? I think 8 or so people came, and zero of them were from my own corp... and I think I had one other matari attendee this year, and one or two the first year. How many people show up when PIE throws a party? Oh, keep in mind, those two events are the only remotely Minny-oriented RP I had, save the odd short conversation in Summit with a person curious about religion.

I'd love to play eve again. I miss it. But I know all it would do is frustrate me, as everything about Minny atm just sucks. And frankly, I lack the resolve to try and "fix" it anymore. I've been trying for a long, long time. Suerte to whoever decides to pick up that torch.

A tribal society (and hence, RP) tends to only work if, you know, more than 1 person is involved. It grew lonely.

It's also unfortunately inherent to the minmatar faction, where the Republic is not the best... attracting thing in the faction, as well as a PF that always put the emphasis on the outsider groups in the minmatar society (thukkers, pirates, lone wolfs, etc).

For the Empire, it's rather like the Caldari : if you are not part of the monolithic bloc, which is not monolithic but from the outside it's black and white, either you are a faithful or a caldari citizen, or either you are not.

[Veiki]

I tried this once when I was a Fed RP'er and saw how little Caldari Patriot RP there was. I went hey, why not try out some Kaalakiota aligned patriot angle and see what happens. All that I learned was that in general it's wasted effort as roleplayers will default to the lowest common denominator stereotypes and most puerile derivative trash when they're not busy creating alternative content such as OOC/IC dramas on par with some kind of high-school grade Twilight fanfic.

[Iwan Terpalen]

I tried this once when I was a Fed RP'er and saw how little Caldari Patriot RP there was. I went hey, why not try out some Kaalakiota aligned patriot angle and see what happens. All that I learned was that in general it's wasted effort as roleplayers will default to the lowest common denominator stereotypes and most puerile derivative trash when they're not busy creating alternative content such as OOC/IC dramas on par with some kind of high-school grade Twilight fanfic.

B+ for degree of bitter. Your supposed failure is qualified in a few interesting ways, though.

[Rinai Vero]

I tried this once when I was a Fed RP'er and saw how little Caldari Patriot RP there was. I went hey, why not try out some Kaalakiota aligned patriot angle and see what happens. All that I learned was that in general it's wasted effort as roleplayers will default to the lowest common denominator stereotypes and most puerile derivative trash when they're not busy creating alternative content such as OOC/IC dramas on par with some kind of high-school grade Twilight fanfic.

Ya, perception of drama / observing lowest common denominator tendencies has definitely been part of why I've stayed a bit on the outskirts of RP stuff. 

It is also frustrating to see the opposite of what this topic is promoting; ie having *every* roleplay topic get dragged onto the same subject over and over.  Shortly before I found out that this OOC forum was a thing was the whole Gallente Presidential election thing, which piqued my interest in checking the IGS after a long absence.  First thing I saw was basically every topic being shat up with nothing but arguments about Tibus Heth.  Not even token efforts being made to link things back to the Gallente candidates under discussion, just all Heth all the time.

Honestly, I don't even think it was a conscious effort by some of those involved... but people just get caught up reflexively in "their" faction's RP sometimes (all the time?) and have a hard time talking about anything else.

[Veiki]

I tried this once when I was a Fed RP'er and saw how little Caldari Patriot RP there was. I went hey, why not try out some Kaalakiota aligned patriot angle and see what happens. All that I learned was that in general it's wasted effort as roleplayers will default to the lowest common denominator stereotypes and most puerile derivative trash when they're not busy creating alternative content such as OOC/IC dramas on par with some kind of high-school grade Twilight fanfic.

B+ for degree of bitter. Your supposed failure is qualified in a few interesting ways, though.

Less bitter and more acceptance of a never-ending cycle. 

Good faith initiatives like this are fine and all it's just that my experience has taught me to curb my enthusiasm as soon as it involves other roleplayers.

[Nissui]

It's also unfortunately inherent to the minmatar faction, where the Republic is not the best... attracting thing in the faction, as well as a PF that always put the emphasis on the outsider groups in the minmatar society (thukkers, pirates, lone wolfs, etc).

For the Empire, it's rather like the Caldari : if you are not part of the monolithic bloc, which is not monolithic but from the outside it's black and white, either you are a faithful or a caldari citizen, or either you are not.

Can't say I disagree, my impression is that PF highlighting tribal unity is pretty scarce. Your other point about the fundamental similarities between the 'allies' is interesting, too. It's much easier to go along with other loyalists when there is a huge disincentive not to do so, and that is not limited to RP. However, RP being a thing which seeks itself out, players might find their roles limited within the faction if they are vocal proponents of dissent. So even in an OOC capacity there is a mechanism for unity on the 'monolithic' side, while the Republic and Federation remain fractious.

It is also frustrating to see the opposite of what this topic is promoting; ie having *every* roleplay topic get dragged onto the same subject over and over.  Shortly before I found out that this OOC forum was a thing was the whole Gallente Presidential election thing, which piqued my interest in checking the IGS after a long absence.  First thing I saw was basically every topic being shat up with nothing but arguments about Tibus Heth.  Not even token efforts being made to link things back to the Gallente candidates under discussion, just all Heth all the time.

Honestly, I don't even think it was a conscious effort by some of those involved... but people just get caught up reflexively in "their" faction's RP sometimes (all the time?) and have a hard time talking about anything else.

On the latter point, I think it's somewhat natural to respond through the prism of character perceptions which are very much self-centered. Those character's 'experiences' are undoubtedly more narrow and/or shallow than our own, so it stands to reason that their perceptions and reactions follow suit. That's not to say that players are making a conscious effort to be narrow and shallow in character portrayal, it could just be chalked up to the insufficiency of the medium. Or maybe it is a conscious effort because tears.

To the former point, I wonder if it isn't a combination of 'deficit of content' mixed with 'mutability of concept'. For instance, I'm playing Nis and I see someone make a Republic post on IGS, perhaps about the Fed inquest into Midular's death, for example. Nis has no relationship to that character, and has no inherent interest or involvement in the topic. However, I haven't had good RP in a month, so I decide to post anyway just for a tiny ego ping. If Nis is so removed from the topic, with only a tangential connection by virtue of Minmatarness, where can I leverage her into play? Speaking personally, it depends on how much I am willing to relax what is in her character for the sake of some dopamine.

So i wonder if it is not the same for others. The kids are calling you to play foosball when you want to play futbol.

That's enough rambling, though.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

As far as I know the only people who are still serious about Republican RP are Gradient. I just have some IC issues with them about the breakup of EM, but apart from that they're fine people.

I did start up a family corporation that was intended to be an attractor for various Matari characters with a yen to serve & fight for the Republic, but I was never certain how to go about promoting it. In any event I'll have to re-sub the account the CEO is on if I want to use it again.

[Synthia]

Promoting the opposing side, is a lot of hard work, with results that tend towards being disappointing for the effort expended.

you end up putting in a whole lot of effort, and then a few months in, you find out that you are the only people on that side, and people other than yourselves who are interested in that side are few and far between, and do not seem to stick around.

so you step back, because paranoia and lack of self-confidence makes you question whether you are part of the problem or part of the solution. Then you observe that your step back has made the situation worse.

So you get back in, because you have the idea that other people are reliant on you to be the thing that their characters are against. So you rationalise it and think "someone has to be the bad dudes, someone has to play the best supporting actor, and there's no one else willing to do so".

Then you end up with a head full of OOC knowledge, that only brings you pain, because you know that the RP enemies need you, to give themselves definition. Its hard to be a vampire hunter when there are no vampires.

Then you think about whether you should jack it all in, because people start queueing up to moan at you OOC because your characters aren't the cardboard stereotypes they need for their self-fanfiction, and you question why you even bother RPing with people instead of at them, because it's not like you're getting paid to do this.

Then people use their information that X and Y characters seem to operate on similar timezones, or use similar IPs, and use this to be snippy and condescending to X because Y is the 'enemy' and it sours the enjoyment that X gets, and disincentivises both X and Y to rp with instead of at people.

So, promoting the opposing side, is a lot of work, for questionable gain.


If you're going to do it at all, then the one doing the promotion, probably should stay away from TS, Ventrilo, forums and other things, because the mod tools that those things have, will make your life needlessly complicated, if/when someone lets it slip that X is Y.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Then you think about whether you should jack it all in, because people start queueing up to moan at you OOC because your characters aren't the cardboard stereotypes they need for their self-fanfiction, and you question why you even bother RPing with people instead of at them, because it's not like you're getting paid to do this.

I love you. <3

[Arkon Sarain]

Some awesome replies

Re: Arnulf if you do resub that account let me know I would be happy to help however I can OOCly and ICly

Re: Synthia, thank you for a very considered reply But as I mentioned in one line of a post a little while back ( Not even I can find it XD ) is that by promoting the other side I don't necessarily mean creating a character loyal to that faction.

But more what you can do as a player, not your character, to aid in creating a richer and more engaging RP environment. For example I am helping out the Federation OOC channel to become a place for GalRPers to coalesce and feel a sense of common community, and to find IC interactions, and I do this on Arkon quite easily. It's simply a matter of whenever I see a lonesome stray Gallente of saying hello OOCly and poking them towards the channel.

Of course I also do what I can ICly, I am lucky in that Arkon as a character is civil and generally quite sociable, so if I see some people lurking in the FedOOC channel that are new or whom I haven't seen RPing I always offer to go to a neutral venue and engage in some general chit-chat. It ain't the most astounding of RP for them I am sure, but at least they are getting some more interactions, and hopefully that will help them in some small way.

I am sure that one could probably do more by creating another character belonging to the opposing faction, but then I think you will run into the very problems and issues you mention in your post.

Thanks again for all the thoughts that are being shared here, they are assuredly helpful and I think also highlight a common concern among all in the community - which is nice to be reminded of OOCly seeing as IC can sometimes be the main prism through which we see EVE at times.

[Ava Starfire]

As far as I know the only people who are still serious about Republican RP are Gradient. I just have some IC issues with them about the breakup of EM, but apart from that they're fine people.

I did start up a family corporation that was intended to be an attractor for various Matari characters with a yen to serve & fight for the Republic, but I was never certain how to go about promoting it. In any event I'll have to re-sub the account the CEO is on if I want to use it again.

Me and Gradient had quite the falling out, sadly, - some of them are fine people as you say - but even there, most characters are non-Matari anymore. It always annoyed Kyllsa, ICly =P

[Jocca Quinn]

Me and Gradient had quite the falling out, sadly, - some of them are fine people as you say - but even there, most characters are non-Matari anymore. It always annoyed Kyllsa, ICly =P

Many years ago, before alliances were formalised in game Gradient were part of discussions to join with other Matari corps in creating an alliance (when formal alliances came in most of the corps went onto form Ushra Khan). Gradient refused mostly because other corps had members from other races and they wanted a "pure matari" alliance. Strange how things change over time.

[ValentinaDLM]

The funny thing is, that IC val has been really trying to understand Matari culture, and like all of the advances made toward that in the RP channels usually come out with people having negative things to say about the republic (which val doesn't care about, she is interested in culture not the government).

So I put my money where my mouth is I sold almost every nonminmatar ship, and aside from support ships and pirate faction ships, I suppose I only fly minmatar now. Val is trying IC to understand Minmatar culture via combat and that probably isn't going to teach her anything meaningful, but OOC I am quite enjoying the restriction. Got over 50 kills in a rifter last week, both in fleets and solo, and the Rupture, Stabber, Muininn, Vagabond, and Huginn are all really fun to fly and I have been using them. I am going to keep this ship restriction around indefinitely because I am having a blast.

So Ava, if you do return to the game, we totally need to roam in Rifters, Wolves, and Jags and kill everything with the two of us

[Elmund Egivand]

The funny thing is, that IC val has been really trying to understand Matari culture, and like all of the advances made toward that in the RP channels usually come out with people having negative things to say about the republic (which val doesn't care about, she is interested in culture not the government).

So I put my money where my mouth is I sold almost every nonminmatar ship, and aside from support ships and pirate faction ships, I suppose I only fly minmatar now. Val is trying IC to understand Minmatar culture via combat and that probably isn't going to teach her anything meaningful, but OOC I am quite enjoying the restriction. Got over 50 kills in a rifter last week, both in fleets and solo, and the Rupture, Stabber, Muininn, Vagabond, and Huginn are all really fun to fly and I have been using them. I am going to keep this ship restriction around indefinitely because I am having a blast.

So Ava, if you do return to the game, we totally need to roam in Rifters, Wolves, and Jags and kill everything with the two of us

But wut about Breacher, Bellicose, Rapier, Missile ScyFI, Cyclone and Phoon?