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Author Topic: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even  (Read 6416 times)

Mizhara

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #15 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:00 »

Stll phoneposting so got to keep this short and sweet.

1. Same ruleset as IGS except actally enforced.

2. We do not need one general and four empire forums. One general and one "regulated" where faction tagging ( "Republuc", "sansha" "pirate/outlaw", "lawful", or whatever suitably descriptive nomenclature fits the bill ) is allowed. One of the problems with the igs right now is that it is remarkably easy to derail while staying on topic and within the ruleset. This is at times a good thing, other times it stifles discussion and roleplay. To offset the "exclusivity", allow or even require a "general" copy of tagged posts for everyone to be able to weigh in, without disrupting the tagged one. This could also be achieved in one forum as well, but it would be far messier.

3. Moderators need to use "neutral" nameless moderation accounts. OOC we will of course know who is on the team, but IC it needs to be a faceless, neutral entity to avoid the obvious ic biases.

4. While not strictly necessary in a first trial here on backstage, any official startup needs to be tabula rasa. No. Pre. Bans. Everyone gets a chance to prove themselves worthy of access.

5. On that note, I am actually against this being trialed here. It is setting it up for failure. While there is an existing userbase, it starts things iut exclyding everyone that has already been removed or given up on backstage altogether. It is also hard to advertise as it is an ooc forum to bwgin with and not exactly easy to push ic. A separate forum on the same domain would be better, and could right off the bat be aypplemented with a trade forum, newsroom section etc.

6. Can not think of a good name right now, but we should have an ic launch and purpose. "For cspsuleers, by capsuleers. Capsuleers only." Bla bla bla. You get my drift.

7. No seriously, capsuleers only.

8. Can we have a "No video feeds" rule please? It is almist never well done.

I said short and then it got away from me. Hand hurts. Fuck phone typing. Anyway, this will do to start with.
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Mizhara

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #16 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:03 »

Jesus christ that is a lot of typoes. I blame the phone and Norwegian autocorrect.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #17 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:09 »

A separate site might work.

I'd say same general ruleset as IGS.

Previously banned IGS or OOC shitposters I don't see a need to re-introduce?

With new forum chance for semi-anonymous mod cabaal? Or is moderation IC?


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Samira Kernher

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #18 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:19 »

3. Moderators need to use "neutral" nameless moderation accounts. OOC we will of course know who is on the team, but IC it needs to be a faceless, neutral entity to avoid the obvious ic biases.

...

8. Can we have a "No video feeds" rule please? It is almist never well done.

Yes yes yes yes. These.
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Havohej

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #19 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:25 »

I'm inclined toward completely anonymous moderation.  Moderators presenting as Identity-less automatons, effectively.  I'm even in favor of the userbase in general not knowing who all of the moderators are.  The same way we're not allowed to know Devs' mains' names.  Moderator X10 = ?  Could be Silver, Morwen, Havo, Jek, Ghost, or anybody.  Of course, they may or may not post their moderation IC - as forum drones, AI programs existing inside the matr forum itself.

While there are plenty of posters I'd just as soon not have to be bothered with, I think the only way this thing will avoid at least some of the preemptive cries of bias and unfairness and other such canned goodness is to have the doors open to all and let the bad eggs weed themselves out all over again, this time in-character.

Despite the flaws inherent, and yes, I do recognize them, I think it's best to do the trial run here, rather than go to the effort and trouble of putting up the new board, finding a suitable theme, overhauling that theme's CSS, adding elements that do not previously exist (such as faction tags for threads, which also means shooping).  This way, if it's just a terrible idea at its core, we'll find out here in and avoid a lot of extra rigamarole later.

I hadn't read into the faction tagging idea an exclusivity - in the sense of "Amarr tagged, only Amarr characters may post."  I took the suggestion to mean more in the sense of tagging a thread as related to that faction.  So if someone has no interest in Caldariboos, then they don't have to bother clicking on the thread at all.  If the exclusivity of topics within faction is desired, I think that would be better handled by Factional subforums with assigned usergroups.  Graelyn, for instance, would be assigned the Amarr Bloc usergroup, while DeT Resprox would be assigned the Minmatar Bloc usergroup, and so forth.

I'm still partial to centerstage.eve-inspiracy.com.

Or spotlight.

I like video feeds.  Nothing like watching some poor schmuck get their head blown off, amirite?
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #20 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:29 »

I don't see the issue with video feeds. If a rules violation occurs, they can be addressed in the same way any other post would.

And yeah, the thread-tagging idea wasn't so much exclusivity as in "only Amarr people can post here" - a quick glance back at my post would show how bad I feel that idea is - but more a method to say "this thread is generally meant to be about Amarr-related stuff, and derails will be handled accordingly."
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #21 on: 08 Dec 2014, 14:53 »

Yes to optional videos and speech feeds.

Text is so antiquated, yes? :P

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Lyn Farel

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #22 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:11 »

Anonymous mods ? So that way you have even more potential for abuse since :anonymous: ?

It's already dramatic on the internet as a whole due to :anonymous guy behind a computer:...

Just sounds like an excuse not to deal with the actual job of a moderator.  :|
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Havohej

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #23 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:27 »

Anonymous mods ? So that way you have even more potential for abuse since :anonymous: ?

It's already dramatic on the internet as a whole due to :anonymous guy behind a computer:...

Just sounds like an excuse not to deal with the actual job of a moderator.  :|
Implying that the staff wouldn't know exactly who each other are.

Are you kidding me?  Really?  That's a concern for you?

m8

meight

Stahp it.
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Mizhara

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #24 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:40 »

The moderation corp needs to be known ooc, to keep a certain measure of trust. The ic snonymity is for ic reasons, to give some ic trust to the forum. Examples of the trouble you get into with ic modswould be the summit and sansha mods, as an example.

Ooc though, it is rather important to maintain transparency so the community can know uf these are people who can be trusted. I am damned certain I am not participating in a place like this if I do not know who is wielding the banhammer.

As for names, let us not go for stage puns. This needs to make sense ic.

Empyrean Conclave or something else aignifying capsuleer exclusivity and hubris would be nice.
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Havohej

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #25 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:43 »

I like stage puns.  I also like continuity and cohesion.  And we already have one stage pun, so...  :)

As for whether the mods are or aren't all known to the userbase and how that effects peoples' decision to use the boards or not... vOv.  We're certainly not going to be able to satisfy every preliminary ultimatum delivered by every interested member, so let's just see how it all pans out.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #26 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:49 »

Anonymous mods ? So that way you have even more potential for abuse since :anonymous: ?
Anonymous moderation accounts on the forums themselves for posting the "you're bad for shitposting and breaking the rules and should feel bad" posts and locking threads and other crap, rather than people using their regular names and becoming targets of abuse and harassment for doing their volunteer jobs. Not anonymous moderators. There is no reason for you to ever need to know who's behind the keyboard of Moderation Account #23357, just as there is no reason for a moderator to have to feel like they have to pussyfoot around or that they can't post at all on an in-character forum just because of oversensitive twats who will insist on screaming foul at the slightest perceived hint of a tone that isn't "omg you're my best friend EVER."

It's already dramatic on the internet as a whole due to :anonymous guy behind a computer:...
What exactly does this have to do with an in-character roleplaying forum? How is separating moderation accounts from user accounts dramatic? Stop trying to summon crises where there are none, Lyn, it's old.

Just sounds like an excuse not to deal with the actual job of a moderator.  :|
Just sounds like you being yourself and assuming the worst-case scenario and then claiming it to be fact.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #27 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:50 »

I guess I'll be devil's advocate here.

3 sections.

Section 1) the 'Nice' section. In this section, you're not allowed to derail or post flamebait, very strict rules, topic starters are allowed to say 'this topic is about X, don't bring up Y' so say an Amarrian starts a thread about church ceremonies, a minmatar can't derail it with 'rawr slavers'

Section 2) The 'civil' section. This section is designed to encourage active debate about something. Disagreements and arguments are allowed, even encouraged, but they must be civil and polite.

Section 3) Shitposting. "The cluster would be a much better place if all Amarrians were set on fire" very minimal moderation.

Moderation in my opinion should not be anonymous, and should be handled the same way that moderation of the IC summit is handled. If its in character, then we as the players aren't doing the moderating, our characters are and that should be reflected in how things are handled. I agree with Lyn believe it or not, anonymous moderation leads to bad times for everyone. Better to have everyone's faces visible from the outset.

Now lets go up a level. We imagine that the system I have described above exists within the larger framework of backstage, because we actually would have two tiers of moderators. We have first, your IC moderators, characters moderating from within the universe. Above that layer, we have the opportunity to institute something akin to GMs who will manage things in an OOC sense, and make sure things like dead characters posting doesn't happen. In order to gain access to the IC sections, each person would need to be approved by a GM, this is exactly the framework used on a lot of roleplay forums and roleplay chats that I have participated in before, and in my opinion its a rather good and robust system. It should not be responsive, that is, let anyone in who wants in, then deal with them if they break the rules, because it forces the mods to sit back and let people they know are going to cause problems cause problems, and I doubt that will put us on a very good footing. By having to actually get your access approved at some level, the content can be controlled in a much better manner.



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Mizhara

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #28 on: 08 Dec 2014, 16:58 »

Stage puns make sense ooc. Ic it would be a big fucking wut. Let us not make this a big joke right out of the gate, yeah?

And I have to say again, it is not about ultimatums. It is about trust. Any moderator base needs to be accountable. If they are not, they fast go from helpful site staff to tyrranical overlords, in the eyes of users.

Of course, ic they have to be anonymous and heavily implied to have nothing to do with the factions, people or posters on the site. Bots ysing advanced heuristics to determine miderateable content, or a firm hired to deliver a perfectly neutral enforcement of rules, or it will be an immediate shitstorm when the empire loyalist mods a minnie or the minnie loyalist fsils to moderate their own.

It just can not be ic positions for player characters if even the veneer of neutrality is to be preserved.
No one needs to know who exactly pulls the trigger on a mod action, but the team behind it needs to be known.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: IC Forum. It's going to be a thing. How do we even
« Reply #29 on: 08 Dec 2014, 17:10 »

Anonymous mods ? So that way you have even more potential for abuse since :anonymous: ?

It's already dramatic on the internet as a whole due to :anonymous guy behind a computer:...

Just sounds like an excuse not to deal with the actual job of a moderator.  :|
Implying that the staff wouldn't know exactly who each other are.

Are you kidding me?  Really?  That's a concern for you?

m8

meight

Stahp it.

I suppose that might be a concern for some people. I'm not new on these forums. vOv

Anonymous mods ? So that way you have even more potential for abuse since :anonymous: ?
Anonymous moderation accounts on the forums themselves for posting the "you're bad for shitposting and breaking the rules and should feel bad" posts and locking threads and other crap, rather than people using their regular names and becoming targets of abuse and harassment for doing their volunteer jobs. Not anonymous moderators. There is no reason for you to ever need to know who's behind the keyboard of Moderation Account #23357, just as there is no reason for a moderator to have to feel like they have to pussyfoot around or that they can't post at all on an in-character forum just because of oversensitive twats who will insist on screaming foul at the slightest perceived hint of a tone that isn't "omg you're my best friend EVER."


It's already dramatic on the internet as a whole due to :anonymous guy behind a computer:...
What exactly does this have to do with an in-character roleplaying forum? How is separating moderation accounts from user accounts dramatic? Stop trying to summon crises where there are none, Lyn, it's old.

Just sounds like an excuse not to deal with the actual job of a moderator.  :|
Just sounds like you being yourself and assuming the worst-case scenario and then claiming it to be fact.

Refer to Miz' post right after mine. Either i'm not very diplomatic (don't give two shits), or either you are just applying double standards on how you answer to the person rather than the actual content, as usual.

Edit : and Saede's post too.


Nah, just trying to see drama where there is none, right.  :roll:
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2014, 17:14 by Lyn Farel »
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