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[Arista Shahni]

Seems sort of giggle-worthy that being thrown thousands of light years across space is okay, and piloting a gigantic ship as if it were one's own body is okay, complete with the 'physical' sensations of firing guns etc, and being able to train into any faction/size/fit-compilaton of ship is also perfectly okay of you feel like it, but oh noes, you better not get into a body with a bra size one size larger than your own, or shorter hair, etc, cause body dysmorphia.

That you could cure the next morning, by, oh, clone jumping back into your own body.  Or much like training to fly a new frigate, simply injecting the knowledge of any newly shaped body you're clone jumping into, since they're pretty crafty with the brain and its functioning/scanning/programming... unless they're killing off plot characters.

Unless they're using a RL term for a usual EVE-science-magic-spirit-abomination, which is always possible.

[Jace]

Unless they're using a RL term for a usual EVE-science-magic-spirit-abomination, which is always possible.

I think this is largely what it is - especially because the more I think about it, I think the mentions of it were mostly in the novels. It really is a very unfortunate use of terminology. Some sort of sensory-diffusion would have made more sense, they could have easily technobabbled it as your brain going 'ahhhh, I am not sensing the things I am supposed to be sensing.' Sort of like phantom leg syndrome on a massive scale.

But no, they chose a term that has an actual meaning in real life.

[Jikahr]

Well, there is a difference between a body which is A LOT different than yours, and a body that has been given the same fingerprint and retina as someone else.

I agree though, it does seem 'giggle worthy'. Not only are the lower grade clones made out of animal parts (???), but apparently the clone blanks your mind is downloaded into don't even carry the same DNA as you, at least for a while.

I wonder who wrote that section about clones? Apparently they have never taken a Grade ten biology course.

A clone is an exact genetic replica of the original, or it just doesn't meet the definition of clone. Taking a bunch of Spam or meat paste (i.e. animal parts) and pressing it into a humanoid form before inserting your DNA into it just doesn't cut it somehow.

Also, it would be cheaper/ easier/ more realistic to take undifferentiated cells from the original, and simply let these grow in a nutrient solution or womb. That's how clones are done today.

Cells are microscopic. Animal parts are large, awkward and messy. How are the EVE clones an improvement on the actual, scientific cloning procedures that we have today? 

Back on topic though. Locks are for honest people. There are ways around CONCORD records. It's conceivable that the Blood Raiders have agents everywhere, and this allows them to alter CONCORD records at least. Also, Blood Raiders would want to keep their records a secret, but the Guristas and Angels might see them as a bragging point.

[Samira Kernher]

Simple. Ignore the older article. It means nothing and has no relevance. It was almost certainly written to explain why recustomization did not permit changing race and sex. Source overrules it by describing it as possible*, and according to the CSM mechanics will soon permit it.

Also remember, that it's been established since EVE True Stories that (some) alts are explained as another clone you jump into. That also verifies that there is no dysphoria issue (or if it is, it's something that some people don't have or don't care about).

If previous articles established some BS dysphoria issue with clones of different appearances, then those articles are simply wrong and no longer apply.


*"Even today, with cloning somewhat more commonly accepated (if not necessarily well regarded), stories persist of people blurring the lines of personhood and identity further by cloning themselves into completely different bodies, across the gender and race gaps." - EVE Source

[Samira Kernher]

I'll also point to this video as yet more proof.

"Thanks to cloning technology, you can have nearly any appearance you wish."

[Jace]

Hmm, yep it is a clear retcon situation. Good to know. I'll still look up the previous mentions of it out of curiosity, but they indeed have moved beyond it.

[Lithium Flower]

Although this video got me impression on more mix of IC and OOC. I felt it like was told to new players, instead of baseliners.
At the moment still if you show yourself as a Minmatar, you will emerge in Minmatar training corporation, and not in Gallente, if you were, for example, Gallente who wished to look like a Minmatar.

About ten years ago, having some contacts with underground, I could easily get access to all databases about peoples, stolen from major cell phone operators, police, tax service. And these bases were sold for rather cheap price.

I believe it could have easily been done in Eve world as well, where most of criminal factions simply have copies of whole CONCORD databases, maybe outdated by a year or a half (depending how good insiders can work ), but still, this can be rather easily achieved.

[Jekaterine]

In regards to what Samira is saying this is from the CSM minutes (found here: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM9Summer_Minutes_2014.pdf ):

Possible new services from the NES:
Race change certificates.
Gender change certificates.

This and some discussion on it is to be found at page 40.

[Gaven Lok ri]

You can reconcile the two with saying that there have been advances in cloning in the last ten years.

[Merdaneth]

In-game I notice capsuleers changing their appearances: hence it is possible.

In-game I have never noticed anyone being able to download their consciousness in any other body other than their own, and I only see one copy of a consciousness/body exist at the same time. With some imagination I can fit some of the lore into these observed facts, but as for others, I simply assume that what I see in-game is what is real.

Fortunately, I've never seen anyone claim clone-jacking.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I only see one copy of a consciousness/body exist at the same time.

About this bit: Yes, CONCORD and the big 4 start to get very upset when you run multiple clones of yourself. I think there was a bounty-hunt style live event years back involving a scientist who'd had multiple active clones at the same time.

[Ashley]

Simple. Ignore the older article. It means nothing and has no relevance. It was almost certainly written to explain why recustomization did not permit changing race and sex. Source overrules it by describing it as possible*, and according to the CSM mechanics will soon permit it.

Also remember, that it's been established since EVE True Stories that (some) alts are explained as another clone you jump into. That also verifies that there is no dysphoria issue (or if it is, it's something that some people don't have or don't care about).
If previous articles established some BS dysphoria issue with clones of different appearances, then those articles are simply wrong and no longer apply.


*"Even today, with cloning somewhat more commonly accepated (if not necessarily well regarded), stories persist of people blurring the lines of personhood and identity further by cloning themselves into completely different bodies, across the gender and race gaps." - EVE Source

It doesn't say they have no psychological problems afterwards.

[Arista Shahni]

Capsuleers don't tend to suffer massive psychological issues when switching between shuttles and Titans either as ship-of-choice.  As the ship essentially 'becomes' your body while you're piloting it (one loses all sensory feedback from their body in the hydrostatic fluid and the ships 'sensations' become their own, the disassociation required to be a capsuleer .. I'm having issues understanding why they couldn't, or wouldn't, be equally disassociated with their own bodies, much less anyone else's they happen to be inhabiting.  right, might be vaugely uncomfortable or feel "wierd" to be in a body that isn't yours .. but officially (especially now after changes to lore) - every body we're in isn't ours.  Even if we have our own old body laying around cause we decided to ignore that snippet, it is likely hidden somewhere safe and is not the one Capsuleers use to fly into battle and whatnot.

.. not to say a sense of dysphoria would't exist.  But Capusleers are likely the types to be the LEAST effected by such to prevent the cray cray / mindlock sorts of situations.  Also essentially, body dysmorphia can be healed (not cured.  healed.) by making the changes required by the mind so that the body fits.  dysphoria is also not "damage" or "insanity".  It is a "state of mind" that while it can be uncomfortable, it should not be considered a form of mental "illness" any more than as someone mention, a "phantom limb" issue.

Which, again... of all ppl, Capsullers, again, I'd see as the least effcted.  Sure our "average" Empyrean with a medical clone, sure.  Someone who flies dozens of shiptypes and can command hundreds of different modules as if they were one's own arms and legs... not so much imo.

[Mizhara]

I think, therefore I am. I think, and my mind is cast across the light-years to appear before yours. I think, and a kilometer long hull pulls a turn that would shear lesser vessels in half, before throwing itself across systems or even the vast darkness between them. I think, and I reach out to touch you, with furious violence or bringing you from the brink of death. I think and thousands die.

I am a God.

What does it matter what shape I wear? It is as much a function of my mind as everything else is now.

tl;dr, Arista's right. A nubbins might have issues, but a veteran capsuleer should be fully capable of existing as an infomorph, capable of wearing whatever body they desire.

[Merdaneth]

About this bit: Yes, CONCORD and the big 4 start to get very upset when you run multiple clones of yourself. I think there was a bounty-hunt style live event years back involving a scientist who'd had multiple active clones at the same time.

Ooh, Concord gets upset! Scary!

I guess they get more upset when you make two clones than when you criminally kill thousands of people?

And all those people who are fugutives from Concord already? Ah well, I do guess Zor has thousands of clones running all over EVE.