Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Havohej]

No, you can't (i.e.: you can't say every crime is every victim's fault by any stretch of logic).

She can wear whatever skirt she wants.

She can drink whatever she wants (if she's of age to be drinking).

She can take whatever pictures she wants - but she'd damned well better know that if she transmits it over the internet or shares it with anyone else, it is very likely it's going to end up seen by people she had no intention of seeing it.

Nobody is saying it wasn't wrong to hack iCloud.  Nobody is saying it's not wrong for an ex to share pictures shared in confidence.  What we're saying is:

A:) This isn't the same thing as rape at all.

and

B:) You pays your money and you takes your chances.

This isnt the 90's where people thought their AOL email accounts were Fort Knox.  This stuff happens all the time, and people keep doing it.  It's SO FUCKING TERRIBLE when it happens to a celebrity though.  Fuck them - they're nothing but people doing the same shit everybody else does and suffering the same consequence that everybody else suffers.

Except Maroney.  Teens all over the US are getting charged with CP for taking nudes of themselves and sending it to boys via cellphone.  She's special for being a gold medalist, though.

I don't see how they're deserving of any sympathy any other woman whose nudes leak without their consent isn't deserving of.

Further, victim blaming IS the right thing to do, here.  They have a share of the responsibility for this because they willingly took the pictures and put them on the internet.

That woman with the short skirt who gets raped?  She did not willingly remove any article of clothing and put a penis inside of herself.  She has no blame or responsibility for having been assaulted.

[Mizhara]

@Vic: Everything you said I agree with. Every single word.

@Jace: If you see someone trying to silence the people who took and uploaded those pictures anywhere, feel free to let me know. There haven't been any in this thread nor where I've seen this debate elsewhere.

[Silas Vitalia]

Havo I'm pretty sure none of those women consented to their private sexual images being put on 4chan.

In fact my understanding is many of them weren't even 'shared' with anyone else at all, just automatically synced with the icloud service.


There are reasonable arguments to be made within the context of using safe judgement with regards to the decisions we make in life, but they more often than not run straight into blame.

It always pisses me off that the 'debate' always immediately shifts from something simple like  'don't rape people' to 'what was she wearing?'   

It's the same awful argument logic when another young unarmed kid gets shot (was he a good student? Did he smoke weed? Was he dressed too black to not be shot?)




   

[Mizhara]

Where the fuck are you hanging out where the debate shifts to something like that? I never see that other than in SJW tumblrs where they make up strawmen by the dozens.

[Jace]

Further, victim blaming IS the right thing to do, here.

This is why the discussion is pointless and the topic is a political one. There is no debating with this attitude - it just needs to be fought legally and politically.

[Silas Vitalia]

Where the fuck are you hanging out where the debate shifts to something like that? I never see that other than in SJW tumblrs where they make up strawmen by the dozens.

http://youtu.be/HxQnBR8OO_U?t=52s

"What did she expect to happen?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/18/montana-judge-rape-victim_n_4811890.html
Montana Judge Admits Fault For Blaming Rape Victim In State Supreme Court Filing

And the always classy Serena Williams
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/serena-williams-steubenville-rape-victim_n_3462519.html
Serena Williams: Steubenville Rape Victim 'Shouldn't Have Put Herself In That Position'

That took about 30 seconds on google

[Mizhara]

And you consider these representative of anything but a minority of fuckwits? It's like me using Fox News as an example of all America stands for or /v/ as representative of the entire internet. You gotta look further than the crazies to see the hundreds of thousands that make up for the one idiot, Silas.

[Silas Vitalia]

And you consider these representative of anything but a minority of fuckwits? It's like me using Fox News as an example of all America stands for or /v/ as representative of the entire internet. You gotta look further than the crazies to see the hundreds of thousands that make up for the one idiot, Silas.

Fox News is the most popular cable news channel by a huge margin, with millions of daily viewers.

Judges are elected by popular vote

Sports celebrities are idolized by millions

[Mizhara]

I didn't ask if it was popular or not. Duck Dynasty and Honey Boo Boo was popular. Do you consider it representative of the US population? Do you think those Judges won on a platform of victim blaming, or did they get voted in for other things? Sports Celebrities are popular and idolized because of smart aleck off-the-cuff remarks?

They don't represent any majority in any way when they make these utterly stupid comments and I'm pretty sure you know that.

[Havohej]

In fact my understanding is many of them weren't even 'shared' with anyone else at all, just automatically synced with the icloud service.

I have a bridge I been trying to sell for months, it's in NY, I could really use the cash right now.

Judges being elected by popular vote, yes, that's true - they're in these little parts at the bottom of the ballot that nobody reads, nobody knows who they are, they just push the button that fills in all their favorite party's people.

John Q. American has no clue who they're voting onto a bench.

[Silas Vitalia]

I didn't ask if it was popular or not. Duck Dynasty and Honey Boo Boo was popular. Do you consider it representative of the US population? Do you think those Judges won on a platform of victim blaming, or did they get voted in for other things? Sports Celebrities are popular and idolized because of smart aleck off-the-cuff remarks?

They don't represent any majority in any way when they make these utterly stupid comments and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Popularity is often a yardstick for shared values and general interest, so yes when many millions of people watch Honey Boo Boo and Duck Dynasty or Fox News it says something about our culture and our values.

So when you can say those things fairly often on something popular and not get fired, it means there is a sizable population that supports and agrees with those views.

See Rush Limbaugh, etc.

Fortunately (for me as a minority), much of the sexual discrimination, racism, homophobia, etc is tied to demographics;  As our country is getting younger and less white it is also getting more liberal and less homophobic, sexist, etc.

[Mizhara]

I'd agree if those ridiculous comments were the main thrust of their platforms (be they athletes, celebrities, political figures, whatever) but it's not. The world-star athlete and the celebrity is popular because of their performances, music, movies, whatever. Honey Boo Boo and Duck Dynasty are funny to laugh at and say "Thank god we're not like that, eh?" and so on.

They're really not representative of the population in any real way. There's no need to create a huge wall of enemies when you can just focus on the minority of fuckwits that actually think that way.

[Havohej]

Fortunately (for me as a minority), much of the sexual discrimination, racism, homophobia, etc is tied to demographics;  As our country is getting younger and less white it is also getting more liberal and less homophobic, sexist, etc.

I'm black.  I think the liberalization of America in the last decade has been in spite of racial demographic shifting rather than because of.  I can tell you from experience the black and hispanic populations are even more homophobic than whites.  Blacks are less religiously conservative, imo, where fiscal conservatism is still largely a white thing.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'd agree if those ridiculous comments were the main thrust of their platforms (be they athletes, celebrities, political figures, whatever) but it's not. The world-star athlete and the celebrity is popular because of their performances, music, movies, whatever. Honey Boo Boo and Duck Dynasty are funny to laugh at and say "Thank god we're not like that, eh?" and so on.

They're really not representative of the population in any real way. There's no need to create a huge wall of enemies when you can just focus on the minority of fuckwits that actually think that way.

I was staying away from politicians because low hanging fruit.  There's a parade of foot-in-mouth syndrome on both sides with quite popular elected officials poorly discussing just about any issue you like, non apologetically.

from the famous "legitimate rape" to any other number of lovely statements. 

[Silas Vitalia]

Fortunately (for me as a minority), much of the sexual discrimination, racism, homophobia, etc is tied to demographics;  As our country is getting younger and less white it is also getting more liberal and less homophobic, sexist, etc.

I'm black.  I think the liberalization of America in the last decade has been in spite of racial demographic shifting rather than because of.  I can tell you from experience the black and hispanic populations are even more homophobic than whites.  Blacks are less religiously conservative, imo, where fiscal conservatism is still largely a white thing.

Good point I should have separated some of those:

More about the lion's share of the old white men dying and taking with them a lot of the popular views of the 1950s, and along with that their unquestioned control as the center of the american universe.

Correct about black/hispanic homophobia, though.  Probably more of a generational thing than racial.

My Abuela is super racist against other hispanics (that she considers lower), it's hilarious. I'd be upset but she's 87....