Backstage - OOC Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The Khanid Kingdom was founded by the Khanid family royal heir after he refused to commit ritual suicide?

Author Topic: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav  (Read 3035 times)

Silver Night

  • Admin
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2250
  • Elitist Oldtimer
Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« on: 31 May 2010, 11:41 »

I wanted to start a thread on what the relationship is between the Caldari Navy and the Megacorporate 'police' forces.

There aren't any figures (so far as I know) but I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of Caldari citizenry falls under the sovereignty of one of the Megacorps, at one level or another (They are part of a corp that is part of another corp, that eventually is owned by one of the big 8).

So, where does CalNav get recruits? Would the Megas keep the cream of the crop for their own forces? Maybe there are systems so that Mega forces serve part of their military time with CalNav? Maybe it is a matter of prestige for some corporations? Maybe CalNav is an acceptable option - one of very few - for people who are outsiders in the corporate world?

Of course, there is every chance it would also vary, corporation to corporation.

Ken

  • Will Rule for Food
  • Veteran
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1261
  • Must Love Robots
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2010, 12:00 »

From mission text:

Quote
The Caldari Customs Authority (CCA) is a division of the Caldari Business Tribunal, which is the only nationwide law enforcement agency in the Caldari State.

The CCA is in charge of policing trade at the borders of Caldari space and enforcing any customs duties or tariffs, though the State generally has few of those with both the Liberal and Practical factions both being free trade advocates. However, the CCA tends to be short-staffed, despite being adequately funded, and as a result they often outsource customs duties to the Navy or corporate security forces, who will in turn sometimes subcontract to individual pod-pilots.

In general, customs duties are a low priority (and sometimes an obstruction) for many of the Caldari megacorporations' operations, so they tend to be pushed upon pilots and officers towards the low end of the totem pole.

With the CalNav being a national-level organization like the CCA, it seems reasonable to me that those full-time Navy officers and enlistees drawn from corporate forces would also come from the lower end of the spectrum.  It may even be a convenient way for the corporate police to dispose of those members who get into trouble or who simply aren't compatible.  "Shape up or they'll ship you off to the Navy."  

Only the most patriotic megas (or those directly managed by the Executor, as in the case of KK) would give up their star employees for this purpose.  I also imagine that entire units of the corporate forces are often contracted to the Navy, flying CalNav insignia and performing Navy duties for the duration of the contract.  In fact, I've always thought the corps of "active duty" Navy personnel must be rather small, with the majority of the CalNav consisting of such corporate units on lease to the CEP.
« Last Edit: 31 May 2010, 13:46 by Ken »
Logged

Akikio L

  • Wetgraver
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
    • Akikio's Plog
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2010, 13:27 »

Quote
...these eight private militaries collectively match the official Caldari Army in numbers and far exceed it in training.
From Chron

From that I'd say it's clear CN have their own separate personnel, lots of them but not top notch  :P
Logged

Ken

  • Will Rule for Food
  • Veteran
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1261
  • Must Love Robots
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2010, 13:46 »

Though that chron specifically compares them to the Caldari Army...  And as sci-fi logic tells us, the Navy is the true source of military power in an interstellar civilization.  At the end of the chron there is some reinforcement of the contracting-out notion:

Quote
During the invasion of Caldari Prime, all eight forces lent manpower to various aspects of the operation, from tactical strikes to civilian relocation, and the squadrons who participated have now mostly come back.

The question remains as to the size of the Navy in comparison to the corporate forces.  Honestly, I'll be unhappy if there's PF somewhere that explicitly states the CalNav is large and cohesive enough to overpower any one megacorp's security forces.  Allowing that kind of military strength to exist in the hands of a central government doesn't seem to jive with a Caldari megacorp's interests at all. 
Logged

Akikio L

  • Wetgraver
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
    • Akikio's Plog
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2010, 14:28 »

Oops, didn't read it very carefully  :oops: Just had a faint memory of something like this and hurried to find the right chron. There might be some info to dig out of the news aroudn when FW began and Caldari Prime was liberated (yesh, I'm THAT Caldari :lol:)
Logged

orange

  • Dex 1.0
  • Veteran
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1930
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #5 on: 31 May 2010, 15:47 »

In a confederate government like the Caldari Megas had* setup, the central military is relatively small compared to other national military forces.  The confederation's component members have military forces, which may support national level campaigns.  The central national military focuses on national defense and large scale campaigns.  Its officer corps is geared towards integrating the multitude of different forces, ie coalition warfare.

The fact the central military is smaller and requires the member's forces to pursue objectives acts as a check on the central government.

The mechanism of governance in the State, ie contractual agreements, makes this more interesting.  Potentially the CEP via the CN has a standing contract with each mega's PMC for various services and along with equipment, it may include personnel!

*The past tense is key here; Heth's rise to executor has caused a mix up.
Logged

Svetlana Scarlet

  • Omelette
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 287
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #6 on: 01 Jun 2010, 06:45 »

I suspect the Caldari Navy is larger than any single megacorporation's naval force, but keep in mind that the Navy is just that -- the Navy.  The corporate security forces are not just the navy, but the army, the police, the FBI, the CIA, and the NSA of the megacorp.  Ishukone Watch is involved in everything from the cop that walks the beat in an Ishukone district to the guy doing surveillance of the suspect KK agent downtown, the programmer working on new encryption protocols, the bodyguard throwing himself in front of the CEO, the guard in the watch tower outside the corporate research facility, and the guy commanding the battlegroup protecting Malkalen.  That's a giant organization.  The Navy's mandate is considerably smaller, and they are probably much more focused.

I wouldn't assume that the Navy only gets the dregs either -- there's probably considerable cache in joining the Navy, considering its history (Tovil-Toba was a Navy man, remember) over joining one of the corporate forces.  I'm not sure "paramilitary" is entirely appropriate either, since their role encompasses so much (including actual military forces).
Logged

Seriphyn

  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2118
  • New and improved, and only in FFXIV
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #7 on: 01 Jun 2010, 06:58 »

Quote
...these eight private militaries collectively match the official Caldari Army in numbers and far exceed it in training.
From Chron

From that I'd say it's clear CN have their own separate personnel, lots of them but not top notch  :P

This is interesting because in the latest level 1 storyline missions added to Gallente agents regarding the blind auction occupations, it is stated that the corporate security forces aren't very tough or something. This would make the Caldari Army disproportionately weak (would make sense for a civilization that was exiled through space) and would make the Caldari Navy disproportionately stronger than all the other megacorps paramilitaries.

We do know that the Caldari Navy is the "strongest" of the four navies in terms of a toe-to-toe fight, but is smaller than its rival the Federation Navy. It is "not designed for a sustained offensive" (meaning its a pure defensive entity) and this has been demonstrated by how the Navy was "stretched thin" during the Cordon occupations.
Logged

Hamish Grayson

  • Guest
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #8 on: 01 Jun 2010, 12:23 »

Quote
With the CalNav being a national-level organization like the CCA, it seems reasonable to me that those full-time Navy officers and enlistees drawn from corporate forces would also come from the lower end of the spectrum.

I can see the logic behind that, but being a custom inspector doesn't quite have the prestige as being in the Navy proper.  My character was a Home Guard officer, so I've done a lot of digging over the years into Home Guard related PF and my feeling is that HG is like CN's little brother trying to do everything the exact same way his big brother does.   He gets the same hair cut, wears the same t-shirt etc.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Image:Caldari_Navy.jpg
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Image:Home_Guard.jpg

If that is true, and I'm not saying that it is, then CN would probably be able to poach HG's best and brightest.

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1913&tid=6

Quote
Perhaps just as importantly, if not more so, the security services provide a gateway to employment in the Caldari Navy, and for the best and the brightest it may be the first step towards a career as an officer or even a pod pilot. In fact, progressing through the Navy is one of the only ways a common Kaalakiota employee can enter the capsuleer training program, and so a significant proportion of rookies sign up in the hope that their compulsory term of service will provide them to a new life flying among the stars.

Also note that not all of the eight paramilitaries have a Naval force.  Some of them only have ground forces and hire other corporations such has Home Guard, the Caldari Navy it's self or Mordu's Legion to protect their space born assets.  Infact I suspect that Home guard and Mordu's Legion have a much closer working relation ship with the Caldari Navy than the other paramilitaries and that as mentioned in the Masks of Authority chronicle:  "Home Guard’s image is second to none, not just among the corporate corps establishment but also in the popular cultures of all four empires." is because they use the prestige of the CN to boost their own.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mordu%27s_Legion_%28NPC_corporation%29

Thirty-Five percent of the Legion's stock is owned by the Caldari Navy and it's partner is listed as Home Guard.

The Mordu's Legion chronicle states that:

Quote
The Legion has always had close ties with the Caldari  State and the two assist each other on many issues...Members of the Legion get access to high-tech Caldari  military equipment, even prototype weapons to test out, and are guaranteed plenty of employment if they so wish

I suspect that those of the eight paramilitaries with a Naval orientation plus Mordu's legion trade personnel back and forth with the Caldari Navy.  The CN gets hotshot new recruits from them and the Old CN vets have a place to retire to were they can tell war stories and train the next generation.  At the end of the day, the paramilitaries are corporations and as such are expected to make a profit - and the Caldari Navy is huge source of such profit.  I can't prove that of course, but I can link so some material that strongly suggests it.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=28-07-08

Quote
The passage of time had done little to diminish the Kaalakiota leadership’s wartime alertness; they had long been advocates of increased military spending, particularly towards protection of assets in the homeland. The Sukuuvestaa, meanwhile, wanted the available funds diverted towards land partitioning on newly settled planets, reasoning that the creation of new assets was every bit as important as the protection of existing ones. That Kaalakiota dealt primarily in arms at the time, and Sukuuvestaa primarily in real estate, were topics not raised at the meeting.

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=354&tid=4

This little news article is one that has been very important to my RP.

Quote

2004.04.18 19:20:52
The Caldari State has revealed that the budget for the Caldari Navy will be slashed for the 10th consecutive year. A high-ranking official was quoted as saying: "The war with the Federation is long since over and in our estimate there is no imminent threat on the horizon. Besides, our annual spending for CONCORD forces has been on the rise, which counterbalances the cuts for the Navy. We are confident that despite these cuts our Navy will still be more than capable of performing its duty 100%."

The Caldari armament industry has yet again criticized the decision, claiming that the history of the Caldari people amply demonstrates the need for a strong space fleet and that these cuts are jeopardizing the national security of the State. Furthermore, spokesmen for the armament industry predict these cuts will put small armament companies under and force larger companies to cut down on their R&D efforts, which can seriously affect the technological armament race being held with the Federation and others.

State officials have dismissed these doomsday prophecies, stating that the same claims have been heard for 10 years now, yet the Caldari armament industry has shown no signs of a decline, if anything it has grown over this period. This indicates that the armament companies have adapted to the new situation by finding customers outside the State. Indeed, State officials have gone on the offensive by insisting that the identities of these customers should be revealed, something that the armament companies are unwilling to do.  

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1926&tid=6

Quote
2008.04.10 14:48:40
Meanwhile, in the same session, Nugoeihuvi advanced a proposal to trim the budget for both the Caldari Navy and the Caldari Business Tribunal by nearly 15%. "While the defense of the State must be a high priority, the economic strength of our corporations cannot be threatened by paying billions of ISK to fund expansion of a military force already sufficient to defend our current interests," said the Nugoeihuvi statement. "Though important, military expenditures are not an investment, they are overhead, and we all know that overhead must be the first thing trimmed whenever a budget is reevaluated. Meanwhile, we have seen an increasing number of Tribunal investigations end with no charges brought and no damages assessed; perhaps cutting their budget will convince them to engage in fewer frivolous investigations and concentrate on those of more weight."

Once again, this proposal was not greeted quietly in the halls of the Panel. "Cutting the budget for the Navy at this time, so soon after such obvious Gallente provocations as the Kassigainen incident and the so-called 'Brothers of Freedom' is not only ill-advised, it is criminal," refuted the Wiyrkomi delegation.

"Is it a coincidence that Nugoeihuvi, which has been the target of 17% of the Tribunal's investigations this year, is calling for a reduction in their budget? Somehow I doubt that very much," commented a member of the Lai Dai delegation. Still, despite resistance from the Patriot corporations and some resistance by Ishukone, a major Navy contractor, the measure seemed to find some support among the other Panel members, placing it in a similar position to the tariff measure.

...Perhaps most telling about both of these initiatives is that five or ten years ago, such measures would both have little if any support among most of the Panel members. "Ever since the end of the war, the Navy's budget has been almost sacrosanct,"

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1910&tid=6

Quote
Word of the attempt on the life of the Chamberlain has been a hot topic in the boardrooms of the Caldari megacorporations. With the worsening Caldari economy, the threat of instability in their largest foreign market sent a momentary shudder through the Kimotoro  stock exchange. The Lai Dai Corporation and CBD Corporation suffered the worst drops due to their larger involvement in the Amarr market, though they both managed to recover most of their losses in short order.

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1929

Quote
Financial newsmagazine The Kimotoro  Report is reporting that two of the eight Caldari megacorporations are considering increasing their stakes in a number of foreign markets as a hedge against the faltering State economy. The Lai Dai Corporation and CBD Corporation, already heavily invested in a number of foreign markets, were reported to be in "high-level discussions regarding foreign acquisitions and trade contracts,"...According to the article, Lai Dai, which already has a minority stake in the Carthum Conglomerate, is considering expanding its holdings in the Amarr corporation...According to these sources, the prospect of one of the Empire's largest aerospace and heavy industry concerns becoming more tightly linked to the State than it already is has been called an "imperial security matter"

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Carthum_Conglomerate_%28NPC_corporation%29

Quote
The Carthum is a fairly new company that was formed with aid from the Caldari  Lai Dai mega corporation, which owns a considerable share in the company.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Khanid_Innovation_%28NPC_corporation%29

Lai Dai owns 30% of Khanid Innovations

Quote
Khanid  Innovation is a hi-tech research firm that has come up with many astounding discoveries in the past few decades. The company has always been at the forefront of weapon research thanks to the urgency in combating the threat of an Amarrian invasion.



In 2004 (YC106?) when the CN's budget was cut the patriots were forced to find other sources of income.  This source, in my opinion, was upgrading the antiquated but ridiculously large and wealthy Amarrian and Khanid military.  Ingame most patriot faction stations within the State's borders are within a jump or two of Caldari Navy mission hubs and many of them outside the State are in the same system as or are within one jump of an Amarrian military station.

What does this have to do with the relationship between the Mega Paramilitaries and the Caldari Navy or the relative quality of CN personel and equipment to them?  Well the fact that Patriot corporations are all huddled around CN stations makes me think that for them the Caldari Navy is their bread and butter even if they have to subsidize that with Amarrian contracts nowdays.  Also note that the Megas private navies (those that actually have private navies) are also in the profit making business and that they are probably going to be trying to find all sorts of ways to provide services to the Navy.   This includes everything from training personnel to building ships to doing low-priority security work.  And they would still have to compete with the other security corporations so the better combatants they produce for the CN the better their paycheck.

This is all of course just wild speculation and I've not hard evidence that any of it's true.








Logged

Silver Night

  • Admin
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2250
  • Elitist Oldtimer
Re: Megacorporate Paramilitaries and CalNav
« Reply #9 on: 02 Jun 2010, 17:31 »

Makes a certain amount of sense, though. The ones that pay for the CN are the same ones who would determine the funding, presumably - the CEP, which is to say, the big 8.

The practicals might get a lot of the money back (and a lot of the money that other Megas put in, particularly those that aren't arms-oriented) by supplying the Navy. They would (a few years ago) have been outvoted by the Liberals and practicals. Off the top of my head, it seems like Ishukone might be the only ones (outside the patriot bloc) that would have a real interest in a larger navy (financially) and considerations of 'corporate direction' might over-rule that.

OFC the landscape changed with Heth. Whether there was danger of Gallente military action before or not, there certainly is now.