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[Publius Valerius]

Hi,

I havent bought the Source book yet. So I thought maybe I open this thread to collect future feedback on this topic. What have you like, and dont like? As for me: I would love to had a grip on one of those limited edition ones, sadly I had come to late  But nevermind.

I already have a question: I dont understand is this chart:
http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/Previews/24-072?page=10

Estimated total population: 21,449,105,690,000 (29%)
Amarr: 74% 15,872,338,210,000 (74%)
Caldari: 3,860,839,024,000 (14%)
Gallente: 1,501,437,398,000 (7%)
Enslave Minmatar: 10,712,558,277,000 (14%)
Free Minmatar: 214,491,056,000 (1%)

Percentage of people actively practicing religion: 98%
Average numbers of slaves per household: 6.7

As I see it: Is the percentage towards the total population? Because the number of Free Minmatar would fit: 21,449 billion (100%) 214 billion (1%). But the percentages are a little bit of.. as the make together just 96% (74+14+7+1).

15,872,338,210,000
3,860,839,024,000
1,501,437,398,000
214,491,056,000
_____________
21,449,105,688,000

Which is almost the total free population, as 21,449,105,688,000 is close to 21,449,105,690,000. I think what happened was some rounding errors. So with the given total free population: 21,449,105,690,000

Amarr = 15,872,338,210,000 = 74%
Caldari = 3,860,839,024,000 = 18%
Gallente = 1,501,437,398,000 = 7%
Minmatar = 214,491,056,000 = 1%

So I think, it was a typo and the Caldari would/should be 18% and not 14%. As for the percentage numbers behind enslave minmatar (14%) and total population (29%) I have no plan.

What I could think of that both -- 14% and 29% --  are in percentage towards another number:
14/29 = 0,4827586206896552
10,712,558,277,000/21,449,105,690,000 = 0,4994407893656101

100% would be:
~76,518,273,407,000.14286
~73,962,433,413,000.7931

I could think that CCP maybe thought that would be the population of the known cluster? So around 73,000-76,000 billion? So that 29% of the cluster are amarr citizens/free, and 14% of the cluster are by the empire enslave minmatars?


But maybe I have overlooked something? Any help is welcome, as well as any feedback about the book; as I havent bought it yet (will do it later, maybe just a digital version, will see, Iam not sure.).


Edit: I think the 74% after Amarr was a typo, but if someone has a idea it would be great.

[Samira Kernher]

I mailed CCP Falcon about the numbers after I saw the preview pages, a few weeks ago. They fixed them for the actual book release. The current page looks like this:

[spoiler][/spoiler]


Additionally, while it's not listed in the book, Falcon told me that 49% of people in the Empire are slaves, so the total total population (free and slave) is about 40-42 trillion, with around 20 trillion slaves, 11t of them being Minmatar.

Based on the two sets of stats, the actual total population of the Empire, both free and slaves, should be something like:

38% Free Amarr (16 trillion)
9% Free Caldari (3.8 trillion)
3% Free Gallente (1.5 trillion)
0.4% Free Minmatar (0.2 trillion)
25.6% Enslaved Minmatar (10.8 trillion)
24% Slaves of non-Matari ethnicity (9.7 trillion)

Falcon wouldn't confirm those numbers when I asked, but based on the number we have and the numbers he's given me, that seems about right.


Falcon also said that these numbers don't include the Khanid Kingdom or the Ammatar Mandate.

[Publius Valerius]

I mailed CCP Falcon about the numbers after I saw the preview pages, a few weeks ago. They fixed them for the actual book release. The current page looks like this:

[spoiler][/spoiler]


Additionally, while it's not listed in the book, Falcon told me that 49% of people in the Empire are slaves, so that's an additional 20 trillion people to the total population, of which about half are Minmatar.

Based on the two sets of stats, the actual total population of the Empire, both free and slaves, should be something like:

38% Free Amarr (16 trillion)
9% Free Caldari (3.8 trillion)
3% Free Gallente (1.5 trillion)
0.4% Free Minmatar (0.2 trillion)
25.6% Enslaved Minmatar (10.8 trillion)
24% Slaves of non-Matari ethnicity (9.7 trillion)

Falcon wouldn't confirm those numbers when I asked, but based on the number we have and the numbers he's given me, that seems about right.


Falcon also said that these numbers don't include the Khanid Kingdom or the Ammatar Mandate.

+1
Thanks for the help  .... Ehm about the 29% behind the total population has he told something?

As for the rest I almost thought that why too: That it was a typo and it should be 18% for the caldari.

Edit: As I mention above... I thought 29% and 14% would be in relation to the cluster wide population. As it would fit (29+14=43%)..... with the 40%-ish of the cluster.... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr     But maybe CCP had something else in mind?

By the way: How is the book?

[Samira Kernher]

The 29% is in regards to total population in empire space. Free Imperials make up a full third of empire space population. When you add in slaves, the Kingdom, and the Mandate... the Imperial bloc makes up something around 60-70% of empire space population. Yowzers.

[Publius Valerius]

The 29% is in regards to total cluster population. Free Imperials make up a full third of New Eden's overall population. When you add in slaves, the Kingdom, and the Mandate... the Imperial bloc makes up something around 60-70% of the clusterwide population. Yowzers.

+1

Thanks.... Good to know. As for Mandate and Kingdom... It would be a little much? As both are just one region nation..... ehm. Maybe something like Empire in the high 40ties.... so 46% and both smaller ones so around 7%-ish, which would give us 60%. Because the the rest of the cluster need people too

[Samira Kernher]

Slaves add another 20 trillion ish to the Empire (and the numbers already established that 21 trillion is about 29%). So just the Empire, free and slave, is 58-60% on its own. Then you add in the Kingdom and the Mandate.

[Samira Kernher]

I don't have the book, so can't say in regards to the population presented in the book, but if we take previous given estimates...

Gallente Federation is 20% of total clusterwide population.

Minmatar in the Empire make up a third of all Minmatar everywhere, Minmatar in the Republic make up a quarter. So there are ~33 trillion Minmatar total, and about 8.3 trillion in the Republic. Adding in non-Matari immigrants, that probably gets up to 9-10 trillion in the Republic. Thukker don't count, as they aren't in empire space (as the numbers are only factoring in empire space). So Republic makes up about... uh, 13% ish?

State is the smallest, and makes up everything else.


It's possible that the Kingdom and Mandate aren't counted as empire space (to clarify, I meant empire space before, not all of New Eden), and so aren't included in that total population count. That would leave around 59% Empire (29% free, 28% enslaved), 20% Federation, ~13% Republic, ~8% State.


Like I said, I don't have the book, so I can't say if these numbers are right.

[Publius Valerius]

Slaves add another 20 trillion ish to the Empire (and the numbers already established that 21 trillion is about 29%). So just the Empire, free and slave, is 58-60% on its own. Then you add in the Kingdom and the Mandate.

Ah okay. Good to know....

Amarr Empire = 8 Regions (~35%) = ~60%
Caldari State = 4 Regions (~17%) = ~9%
Gallente Fed = 6 Regions (~26%) = ~20% (1/3 are minmatar... and almost as much as in the Rep)
Minmatar Rep = 3 Regions (~13%) = ~7%

Ammatar Mandate = 1 Region (~4%) = ~2%
Khanid Kingdom = 1 Region (~4%) = ~2%

Additionally, while it's not listed in the book, Falcon told me that 49% of people in the Empire are slaves.

Ehm..... to soften it a little.... Lets say 29%*2=57-58%-ish (because 51% free and 49 are slaves).

Amarr Empire = 8 Regions (~35%) = ~57%
Caldari State = 4 Regions (~17%) = ~10%
Gallente Fed = 6 Regions (~26%) = ~20% (1/3 are minmatar... and almost as much as in the Rep)
Minmatar Rep = 3 Regions (~13%) = ~7%

Ammatar Mandate = 1 Region (~4%) = ~3%
Khanid Kingdom = 1 Region (~4%) = ~3%

Could work..... Still a little bit much for the empire. Maybe the numbers are really just for the major four:

Amarr Empire = 8 Regions (~38%) = ~58%
Caldari State = 4 Regions (~19%) = ~11%
Gallente Fed = 6 Regions (~29%) = ~23% (1/3 are minmatar... and almost as much as in the Rep)
Minmatar Rep = 3 Regions (~14%) = ~8%

Yeah. I think the numbers make the most sence if we just take them as for the major fours.

[Samira Kernher]

See my above post. I don't actually think Mandate and Kingdom are counted, as they may not be considered part of empire space (which is what we are counting, I was wrong to say total New Eden population earlier and have edited my post).

Also, Falcon confirmed that the State has the smallest population of the 4 empires.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Some of these numbers are confusing as a whole. For example the Caldari population is given:

8.4 Trillion in the State
1.5 Trillion in the Fed
3.8 Trillion in the Empire

So it's hard to tell whether there are 8.4 Trillion Caldari total in which 5.2 Trillion live abroad (64%) or if there are 13.7 Trillion Caldari total in which 5.2 Trillion live abroad (38%).

Because to me the difference in having 2/3 of Caldari not living in the State compared to 1/3 would be rather distinct, socially.

[Samira Kernher]

It's the latter. 13.7 trillion Caldari total in the State, Federation, and Empire (there's probably some in the Republic too, so probably more than 13.7t). 5.2 trillion are abroad (in the Fed and Empire at least).

[Publius Valerius]

See my above post. I don't actually think Mandate and Kingdom are counted, as they may not be considered part of empire space (which is what we are counting, I was wrong to say total New Eden population earlier and have edited my post).

Also, Falcon confirmed that the State has the smallest population of the 4 empires.

Nevermind... I have edit my post to.... just not to lost my string of thoughts.... Dont see it as counter argument.  More as that Im to lazy to keep everything in mind.... So I had write it down.





Amarr Empire = 8 Regions (~38%) = ~58% *Free 25% on the wiki***; in the book: 29%. But is almost the same.**
Caldari State = 4 Regions (~19%) = ~11%*10% on the wiki.***
Gallente Fed = 6 Regions (~29%) = ~23%*20% on the wiki.***
Minmatar Rep = 3 Regions (~14%) = ~8%

Yeah. I think the numbers make the most sence if we just take them as for the major fours.

***I see now... on the wiki is it towards the whole cluster population. I think it could work, as I dont think so many people life outside of the major fours.

[V. Gesakaarin]

It's the latter. 13.7 trillion Caldari total in the State, Federation, and Empire (there's probably some in the Republic too, so probably more than 13.7t). 5.2 trillion are abroad (in the Fed and Empire at least).

I was leaning towards that, but it's still not clarified for me.

Also, in terms of realpolitik the sheer scale of the Imperial population and its territorial size combined with its traditional foreign policies is probably enough to make every other faction in New Eden very wary about them.

[Publius Valerius]

It's the latter. 13.7 trillion Caldari total in the State, Federation, and Empire (there's probably some in the Republic too, so probably more than 13.7t). 5.2 trillion are abroad (in the Fed and Empire at least).

I was leaning towards that, but it's still not clarified for me.

Also, in terms of realpolitik the sheer scale of the Imperial population and its territorial size combined with its traditional foreign policies is probably enough to make every other faction in New Eden very wary about them.

More weird is that I had long ago a discussion about the population of planets: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64529&p=3

Lets see again: Free 21.449 Trillions (51%).... Slaves 20.607,862 (49%) lets round down to 20.607 Trillions (49%), which gives a total of 42.056 trillions by ~673 temperate planets. Which would give us 62,49 Billions per temperate planet. 

[V. Gesakaarin]

It's the latter. 13.7 trillion Caldari total in the State, Federation, and Empire (there's probably some in the Republic too, so probably more than 13.7t). 5.2 trillion are abroad (in the Fed and Empire at least).

I was leaning towards that, but it's still not clarified for me.

Also, in terms of realpolitik the sheer scale of the Imperial population and its territorial size combined with its traditional foreign policies is probably enough to make every other faction in New Eden very wary about them.

More weird is that I had long ago a discussion about the population of planets: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64529&p=3

Lets see again: Free 21,449 Trillions (51%).... Slaves 20,607.862 (49%) lets round down to 20,607 Trillions (49%), which gives a total of 24,056 trillions by ~673 temperate planets. Which would give us 35.744 trillions per temperate planet. 

Do you mean 35.744 Billion per temperate planet? That does seem high, but I don't think every one lives on temperate planets. Even then, I think the Gallente at least are hinted at having environmental technology that could keep a biosphere inhabited even with tens of billions of people. Then there's the fact that the technology in Eve probably allows for habitation in many ways: Massive megacities of interlinked, towering arcologies; subterranean geo-fronts; under water enclaves; stratospheric structures; orbital elevators; or low-orbit facilities.