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[Nicoletta Mithra]

I spent few months conducting a personal experiment that some described as trolling. I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of RP in Eve isn't actually so much RP as much as OOC dramas and conflicts taken into RP with the thin veneer of it being, "In-character." Looking back I probably didn't even need to do it if I took the time to consider the old Bitching Section on the old Chatsubo forums, but I was curious if anything had changed and honestly, it really hasn't.

So I think the only people really left in RP these days are probably those who take OOC drama seriously enough to get "invested" in RP.

Or those who aren't even subbed to Eve but complain bitterly about its lore and RP.

Right now I think there's the people who care only about toxic OOC interpersonal drama as their RP and the others who no longer care and have just moved on elsewhere.

I think there is a misconception that RP is the systematic exclusion of OOC preferences. Nothing could be farther from the truth. RP is something that is quite usually done with people you OOCly prefer to RP with - whatever that means.

[Dessau]

RP is something that is quite usually done with people you OOCly prefer to RP with - whatever that means.

Perhaps over time. I have only the vaguest idea about a small number of players OOC, as does any player who is trying to break into RP here for the first time. There is a stoner or two, maybe some h+ aspirants, and a lot of bittervets. I'm not disinclined to play with any of them due to a lack of familiarity, but rather due to the lack of characters with sympathetic or antithetic interests. 

I don't know if other RP scrubs experience something similar, but I suspect those who try to generalize in order to compensate might end up lacking direction and engaging in the sort of 'unwelcome' or 'low-quality' RP that alienates them from a large swath of the experienced RPers who remain.

This isn't meant as an indictment of the community, but a concern about the motive for vets who leave and newbies who struggle to get a grasp of things.

[V. Gesakaarin]

I spent few months conducting a personal experiment that some described as trolling. I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of RP in Eve isn't actually so much RP as much as OOC dramas and conflicts taken into RP with the thin veneer of it being, "In-character." Looking back I probably didn't even need to do it if I took the time to consider the old Bitching Section on the old Chatsubo forums, but I was curious if anything had changed and honestly, it really hasn't.

So I think the only people really left in RP these days are probably those who take OOC drama seriously enough to get "invested" in RP.

Or those who aren't even subbed to Eve but complain bitterly about its lore and RP.

Right now I think there's the people who care only about toxic OOC interpersonal drama as their RP and the others who no longer care and have just moved on elsewhere.

I think there is a misconception that RP is the systematic exclusion of OOC preferences. Nothing could be farther from the truth. RP is something that is quite usually done with people you OOCly prefer to RP with - whatever that means.

Sure, that's part of it, but the other part of it is that RP these days has the same quality for me as when I watch Parliamentary question time. In that there's a lot of vested interests, massive egos, interpersonal rivalries and so on that manifests into insults and slander which leaves me thinking: Well, here's a lot of pointless drama but where's the actual content of importance relevant to my interests?

[Saede Riordan]

In space! Rabbling in the summit while running missions in highsec won't produce content. Shooting stuff and building stuff and messing with people in space will.

[Lyn Farel]

I am pretty sure that RP mission running corps will love to hear that 

[Saede Riordan]

When you exist within a little bubble, and either cannot or do not effect anyone else in the game, then everything you say is just words, its just rabble. When words leads to ships exploding, that's when the fun really starts.

[Ché Biko]

I actually also got some satisfaction when words lead to DMZ's.

[Ayallah]

I have gone and shot people in space for RP reasons quite a bit. 

It always ends up just as pointless as any IGS or Summit drama.  A good example is the shooting of Havohej, IC reasons confirmed, chestbeating happened then both parties committed just before downtime.  Was a recipe for great drama, there was even a twist!  it isn't a 1v1 it is a 4v1 gasp!

And I still killed him and drove the other four off pretty easily, certainly a heroic moment of triumph over the forces of killing slaves or what the fuck ever it was supposed to be but then, ..nothing happened. 

Because it was just some stupid frigates ~already replaced~

Because in-space RP is just playing the space game, scum v snuff, gal mil v calmil, hell all the way up to null and kugu bad posting which is exactly like the IGS but for people who live in null.

it is just as bullshit as any other form of RP.   The honest best experience in RP I have is in small private circles, sometimes just barP or going out for pizza and talking but it is always infinitely more rewarding than shooting nauplius down for the sixth time or wasting another day trying to catch Diana Kim in lowsec or anything like that.

private RP, with actors you like > else  IMO

shooting people in space is fun, but it is like trying to live off the icing on a cake until suddenly, you are just like everyone else in the game putting memes into chat channels while your enemies talk about already replaced

[Nicoletta Mithra]

When you exist within a little bubble, and either cannot or do not effect anyone else in the game, then everything you say is just words, its just rabble. When words leads to ships exploding, that's when the fun really starts.

Fun is relative to the one having it. I have fun not exploding ships. Shocking, I know. :3

[Louella Dougans]

Grep summit chatlogs, for "Kruul", dozens of entries found.

A couple dozen unique individual characters found they had something to discuss in "The Summit" about Kruul, a mission npc. Scores of conversations and interactions between players.

It is a lie to say doing missions will not produce content.

When you exist within a little bubble, and either cannot or do not effect anyone else in the game, then everything you say is just words, its just rabble.

Counterpoint: Wormholes. You won't leave your wormhole, because of the security requirements - must defend entrances from intruders. Other people will not encounter you, unless they choose to go into wormholes. Nothing you say or do impacts on people who have no interest in wormholes. You exist in a little bubble, with no effect on people who don't go into that bubble.

Contrast: A character who does high sec missions, can be seen and interacted with in space. People can intrude or assist, as they see fit. That character talks in The Summit, and their actions their will have consequence. People are affected and may take offence, or render assistance, and do things in space as a result.

private RP, with actors you like > else  IMO

shooting people in space is fun, but it is like trying to live off the icing on a cake until suddenly, you are just like everyone else in the game putting memes into chat channels while your enemies talk about already replaced

Yes, it's the difference between Roleplaying with someone, vs Roleplaying at someone.

Roleplaying at someone, is the same as typing smack in local. For all they know, you might even have them blocked.
"I shot your puny frigate, Caldari scum!" says some Gallente militia pilot in local. RP, yes, but it is functionally the same as "lol pwnt, noob". You might have that particular Gallente blocked. Makes no difference.

Roleplaying with someone, is entirely different.
Encounter that same Gallente militia pilot in a RP social venue, and some kind of conversation may occur, and interaction beyond "lol, pwnt".

[Lyn Farel]

Grep summit chatlogs, for "Kruul", dozens of entries found.

A couple dozen unique individual characters found they had something to discuss in "The Summit" about Kruul, a mission npc. Scores of conversations and interactions between players.

It is a lie to say doing missions will not produce content.

When you exist within a little bubble, and either cannot or do not effect anyone else in the game, then everything you say is just words, its just rabble.

Counterpoint: Wormholes. You won't leave your wormhole, because of the security requirements - must defend entrances from intruders. Other people will not encounter you, unless they choose to go into wormholes. Nothing you say or do impacts on people who have no interest in wormholes. You exist in a little bubble, with no effect on people who don't go into that bubble.

Contrast: A character who does high sec missions, can be seen and interacted with in space. People can intrude or assist, as they see fit. That character talks in The Summit, and their actions their will have consequence. People are affected and may take offence, or render assistance, and do things in space as a result.

private RP, with actors you like > else  IMO

shooting people in space is fun, but it is like trying to live off the icing on a cake until suddenly, you are just like everyone else in the game putting memes into chat channels while your enemies talk about already replaced

Yes, it's the difference between Roleplaying with someone, vs Roleplaying at someone.

Roleplaying at someone, is the same as typing smack in local. For all they know, you might even have them blocked.
"I shot your puny frigate, Caldari scum!" says some Gallente militia pilot in local. RP, yes, but it is functionally the same as "lol pwnt, noob". You might have that particular Gallente blocked. Makes no difference.

Roleplaying with someone, is entirely different.
Encounter that same Gallente militia pilot in a RP social venue, and some kind of conversation may occur, and interaction beyond "lol, pwnt".

I have gone and shot people in space for RP reasons quite a bit. 

It always ends up just as pointless as any IGS or Summit drama.  A good example is the shooting of Havohej, IC reasons confirmed, chestbeating happened then both parties committed just before downtime.  Was a recipe for great drama, there was even a twist!  it isn't a 1v1 it is a 4v1 gasp!

And I still killed him and drove the other four off pretty easily, certainly a heroic moment of triumph over the forces of killing slaves or what the fuck ever it was supposed to be but then, ..nothing happened. 

Because it was just some stupid frigates ~already replaced~

Because in-space RP is just playing the space game, scum v snuff, gal mil v calmil, hell all the way up to null and kugu bad posting which is exactly like the IGS but for people who live in null.

it is just as bullshit as any other form of RP.   The honest best experience in RP I have is in small private circles, sometimes just barP or going out for pizza and talking but it is always infinitely more rewarding than shooting nauplius down for the sixth time or wasting another day trying to catch Diana Kim in lowsec or anything like that.

private RP, with actors you like > else  IMO

shooting people in space is fun, but it is like trying to live off the icing on a cake until suddenly, you are just like everyone else in the game putting memes into chat channels while your enemies talk about already replaced

I was almost desperate to find people sharing the same experience, and capable of explaining it...

Well yeah, when you have done all that IC stuff ingame again and again, you suddenly start to notice that nothing changes and that it is as meaningless as anything else in the end. So you naturally turn to more story oriented RP tools, which are private RPs...

Especially when words are often stronger than anything else ICly, contrary to popular killboard epeen belief.

[Morwen Lagann]

I'm with Lyn, Lou and Aya here. (Surprise!)

RPVP can be great and all, but it does get just as stale as people talking about the spaceweather or flopping rubber missile dildoes about in the Summit constantly, and in some ways even faster. And, in fact, for some characters, it doesn't produce any meaningful content or development whatsoever.

[Joshua Foiritain]

You can definitely get people interested in what you're doing. That's how I built my corp. It was a long process, and it was hard, and it was slow, but we've built a pretty awesome group of people. Its totally doable, its just not easy.

It asks for OOC really good social skills, which is definitely not something that everyone has. Actually, people with the right set of skills to create a successful group of players that attracts everyone inside because it's cool and all, are pretty rare.

It is often systematically assumed by those people that everyone can do it the same way they did, which is not. I tried myself several corps over the years, and none of those worked. And it's not the faction that matter so much, but the OOC behind.

It requires time and effort much more then it does social skills tbh. Really all you need for a successful corp is a plan, content to keep your members busy and to not be a giant douche. The plan is easy, the content is the hard part as the majority of eve players want to be entertained with having to do the entertaining and this will cost a fuckton of time early on until you find members that are also willing to entertain members. If you dont put in enough time members get bored go elsewhere so achieving critical mass is hard, but certainly possible.

Anyhow

my point was, for many factions, there is one and only one group that does that kind of RP.

And, in some instances, the players behind that group are not necessarily well liked for OOC reasons.

So, if say, you are interested in Angel Cartel rp, but people have told you that the person in charge of the only Cartel group is a jerk, then, well, you're out of luck, for the most part. You sign up with them, you get ostracised by the other groups.

Or just timezone awkwardness. Like, afaik, TS-F are mostly US. If you're European timezone, you don't have much option for Sansha rp.

Or, on the flip side, anti-sansha rp.

Timezones are indeed a fucking pain. Coreli's main enemies are TS-F and I-RED and they're both mainly US timezoned while were almost completely EU. Our war with TS-F was basically us outnumbering the living jesus out of them during our prime and ending up grinding some pocos while being unable to field anything in their timezone. We have the same problem with I-RED, after they destroyed a serpentis research station Serpentis' Kobro division tasked us with blowing up their stuff but since their pilots start logging when most of ours are a sleep we've had fuck all progress on that front.

I really hope CCP eventually comes back to doing regular events at some point because we really could use more loyalist corps/alliances.

[Vieve]

Hey, I wrote off a character once because of a stupid mission.

One day the poor guy (yes, it was a guy, a hetero brotastic goofball to boot) got nothing but an old Federation Level 1 mission that required him to shoot Concord ships, destroy a relief convoy, blow up a slave colony and frame the Empire for it all.  Over and over again, at every single agent he tried.

I thought it was hysterical.

I figured he was in a state of increasing panic, and deeply concerned that he was being set up.  So, he GTFOed.

If he's even alive anymore -- I don't remember if he wound up being killed off in some of the tormented collateral damage stuff or not (no, Veik, it wasn't Roland) -- I figure he's probably wearing a shock collar, mining metal for Quafe cans or something.

[Arista Shahni]

Have to have a char who is able to be changed.

It's pretty easy, if you can accept the story versus the .. yup RP-PVP. 

Sometimes losing is just as important as winning.  Having your mind changed is just as important as standing your ground.

Too many people focus on THEIR story, and not enough on THE story.