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Author Topic: Surviving RP  (Read 11912 times)

V. Gesakaarin

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #75 on: 15 Nov 2013, 11:47 »

Understandable maybe, but I always thought that if you play down to the mass, you're not really helping the situation.  That's why I have so much respect for people who can still keep their characters above water, like Nicoletta and Pieter.  It's too easy to stop trying because the threshold is so low.

Just because the bar is set low is no reason for poor quality roleplaying out of people who are capable of better.  Especially since there are quite a few people who do play interesting characters that really stick out from the background static.

When I first started with Veik as a fresh character I also started writing essay pieces on a variety of topics that are still on my hard drive, ranging from thoughts on the Federal military-industrial complex; post VH-451 Gallente-Caldari relations; Megacorporate propaganda and defining the Caldari mileu; Caldari-Khanid relations; Imperial House politics; and a few more all written from an IC perspective since Veik as a character had/has a strong corporate intelligentsia streak to her.

I also wrote a few fragmentary novella type things for her brother, since he had an IC concept of being a secretive author that published dissident type things about the Caldari State. However, the more I began being re-exposed to the roleplay community, the more my desire to actually complete those projects diminished because frankly it just felt like engaging in a whole lot of wasted time and effort given the expected audience.
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kalaratiri

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #76 on: 15 Nov 2013, 11:54 »

Considering all this talk about talk about "killing the new blood", my experience contrasts pretty heavily with this. Apart from the obvious 'old guard' who have been around for ever and will remain forever, there is a pretty regular turn over of new RPers. After my year long break running from August 2012 till August 2013, when I returned The Summit was close to unrecognisable. There are new faces and new players showing up all the time. Looking at the RP community of May 2011 when I first started getting involved with The Summit and comparing it to now, I reckon less than 40% of the modern summit were around back then. People have left, and they have been replaced by others.

It's always going to happen, and it doesn't mean the community are poisonous as much as the game is.
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"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

Morwen Lagann

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #77 on: 15 Nov 2013, 12:24 »

Just because the bar is set low is no reason for poor quality roleplaying out of people who are capable of better.  Especially since there are quite a few people who do play interesting characters that really stick out from the background static.
And a lot of us just don't feel the IGS is the right place to do it.

The IGS has its uses. I don't think really good character development and interaction is one of them, and while it happens sometimes, it's enough of a rarity that it's not worth actively trying to make it happen there.

I've always, always approached the IGS (and the Summit to some extent) as being a place where a specific 'mask' should be worn. If you want to actually get a good view of the person behind that mask, you need to spend time interacting with them elsewhere, face to face.

I think most people who have interacted with Morwen on the IGS or in the Summit, as well as in person, would say that she changes a lot depending on where and how people interact with her. She's far more argumentative/snarky on the IGS than she is elsewhere because that's the kind of behavior that is expected in that venue, and as a result is the behavior that keeps her head above water, so to speak.

Other characters have pretty drastic differences between how they act on the IGS and in person too. Lyn's a good example - she seems a lot like Morwen in that regard; even though their methods of arguing and snarking are different (and often incompatible), they're both much quieter and reserved in person.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Arista Shahni

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #78 on: 15 Nov 2013, 12:26 »

The thought ICly I keep in mind for the IGS is this.

The IGS is entirely for baseliner's benefit.   Read it in a bad reality television voice.

Keep that in mind and always remember the drinking game:

Drink a shot every time you 'hear' the following:

"ad hominem"

Someone is called out as an IGS mouthpiece

"strawman argument"

"circular logic"

Someone saying or elaborating on "you have no idea what my life is like" in a dramatic argument to explain their behavior.

"So edgy"

Anytime someone uses more than three paragraphs to state a point that can be encapsulated in a single sentence - or has no actual point at all (not including open personal logs)

For the sake of liver safety, one only toasts to the screen and does not drink at the following:

Anything calling for the death of the Federation

Anything calling for the death of the Amarr Empire

Anytime someone talks about how difficult life is in a world that is officially so grimdark that a 'normal life' (and consider your RL a 'normal life' and calculate said RL stresses into said thought process) is actually likely EASIER, minues the killing of thousands of baseliners in ships.

Any story about slaves for the Amarr Empire or Khanid Kingdom.

"Free Speech", "Democracy", or any other Western ideals that have no real paralell in New Eden.

Anytime a thread of any topic is hijacked by Caldari players to discuss the State.

Drink the full bottle if:

Someone apologizes

Someone concedes someone else's point and agrees they are correct

A post that involves any Amarrian spirituality / Religion isn't immediately attacked by an atheist for being "psychos who worship an invisible sky god".  Drink two bottles if it is a Wayist or a Minmatar who follows the Spiritusalist/Shamanic tradition.

I'm sure there's more, but my own liver wouldn't handle it.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2013, 12:30 by Arista Shahni »
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V. Gesakaarin

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #79 on: 15 Nov 2013, 12:36 »

I believe you forgot to drink to:

I can't believe you made me agree with my most mortal enemy ever.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #80 on: 15 Nov 2013, 12:42 »


I've always, always approached the IGS (and the Summit to some extent) as being a place where a specific 'mask' should be worn. If you want to actually get a good view of the person behind that mask, you need to spend time interacting with them elsewhere, face to face.


This is an excellent perspective and agree +10

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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #81 on: 15 Nov 2013, 12:44 »

I believe you forgot to drink to:

I can't believe you made me agree with my most mortal enemy ever.

Also accusations of space lesbianism.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Vic Van Meter

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #82 on: 15 Nov 2013, 12:46 »

Understandable maybe, but I always thought that if you play down to the mass, you're not really helping the situation.  That's why I have so much respect for people who can still keep their characters above water, like Nicoletta and Pieter.  It's too easy to stop trying because the threshold is so low.

Just because the bar is set low is no reason for poor quality roleplaying out of people who are capable of better.  Especially since there are quite a few people who do play interesting characters that really stick out from the background static.

When I first started with Veik as a fresh character I also started writing essay pieces on a variety of topics that are still on my hard drive, ranging from thoughts on the Federal military-industrial complex; post VH-451 Gallente-Caldari relations; Megacorporate propaganda and defining the Caldari mileu; Caldari-Khanid relations; Imperial House politics; and a few more all written from an IC perspective since Veik as a character had/has a strong corporate intelligentsia streak to her.

I also wrote a few fragmentary novella type things for her brother, since he had an IC concept of being a secretive author that published dissident type things about the Caldari State. However, the more I began being re-exposed to the roleplay community, the more my desire to actually complete those projects diminished because frankly it just felt like engaging in a whole lot of wasted time and effort given the expected audience.

If I were you, I'd go the extra mile.  I actually think some of the essay writing I did when I first got onto the IGS (and had a lot more time) generated quite a bit of interesting RP.  It definitely separated the wheat from the chaff.  True, there are a lot of people who will toe the UAD line, but some of those discussions went on for ages, rolling over every little bit of Amarrian religion, culture, and their place in the universe.

All in all, I thought it went pretty well!  People loved or hated Constantin and he caught a lot of flack, but all in all I had a lot of fun.  It seemed like it blew up a sudden spike in Amarrian RP where you got to see who was there and wanted to jump in as a character.  You also saw who just wanted to weigh in with a remark, then leave.

The IGS can be a kind of toxic place, but I think that's just because people have a tendency to play to the lowest common denominator of discussion rather than raising the tone.  Nature of the game be damned, some people had an opportunity to characterize and they took it.

Totally worth doing!

Just because the bar is set low is no reason for poor quality roleplaying out of people who are capable of better.  Especially since there are quite a few people who do play interesting characters that really stick out from the background static.
And a lot of us just don't feel the IGS is the right place to do it.

The IGS has its uses. I don't think really good character development and interaction is one of them, and while it happens sometimes, it's enough of a rarity that it's not worth actively trying to make it happen there.

I've always, always approached the IGS (and the Summit to some extent) as being a place where a specific 'mask' should be worn. If you want to actually get a good view of the person behind that mask, you need to spend time interacting with them elsewhere, face to face.

I think most people who have interacted with Morwen on the IGS or in the Summit, as well as in person, would say that she changes a lot depending on where and how people interact with her. She's far more argumentative/snarky on the IGS than she is elsewhere because that's the kind of behavior that is expected in that venue, and as a result is the behavior that keeps her head above water, so to speak.

Other characters have pretty drastic differences between how they act on the IGS and in person too. Lyn's a good example - she seems a lot like Morwen in that regard; even though their methods of arguing and snarking are different (and often incompatible), they're both much quieter and reserved in person.

If that's the case, I'd think the IGS is still a fun place to play the character.  I actually keep up private RPs through mail and IMs, so I know a lot of characters are different in the crowd than in person.  However, that "mask" that characters and people wear is based on a character's perception of perfection.  The fact is, no two people's false personas are the same because they may have completely different ideas on the best way they'd like to be perceived by others.

If the IGS has a problem as a medium, it's that its subject matter tends to be limited.  That's largely our fault.  We usually only get Arista's bad TV voice from everyone because we're on those subjects.

As much flack as Isis gets, I do like that Constantin and she got to hit on each other and argue.  I think that's the best way to turn face and show another angle on a character.  Just flip the subjects around.
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V. Gesakaarin

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #83 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:02 »

I think there's a point in every Eve roleplayers time spent, when you end up going, "Wait a minute, didn't I have this -exact- same discussion two weeks ago... and maybe three months ago before that... and damn, this is just like last year where we talked about this exact same thing and I said the exact same things I'm saying now."

Once that happens, I think is when the ennui sets in because you come to the realization that all that you're doing is continuously going over the same old territory over and over again just with different faces and names. You can basically just write up a set of canned responses once you recognize the typical flow of arguments for and against your chosen faction and people probably won't realize it, I think.
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Vic Van Meter

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #84 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:11 »

I think there's a point in every Eve roleplayers time spent, when you end up going, "Wait a minute, didn't I have this -exact- same discussion two weeks ago... and maybe three months ago before that... and damn, this is just like last year where we talked about this exact same thing and I said the exact same things I'm saying now."

Once that happens, I think is when the ennui sets in because you come to the realization that all that you're doing is continuously going over the same old territory over and over again just with different faces and names. You can basically just write up a set of canned responses once you recognize the typical flow of arguments for and against your chosen faction and people probably won't realize it, I think.

Want a good way to get around that?  Have a "human moment."

Like, Veik suddenly gets on the IGS blisteringly drunk and has a stream of consciousness rant going from back to front over all those arguments, in a nonsequitor order?

That'll make life interesting on the IGS!
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #85 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:18 »

Ha ha, he thinks Veiki is sober when posting on the IGS in the first place. :lol:
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Isis Dea

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #86 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:26 »

I think that's part of my problem. I see role-play as a partial means of giving back to a world I've found escape in for so long. Over the past four years I really decided to get involved in RP, at first very little, an occasional fiction here or there, then in time to private channels.

This last year I drew the assumption that players first try their luck at the lore of EVE via the IGS and also The Summit, which is where you find the most human of interactions.

Wanting to give back, I guess part of me really wanted to attack that cesspool that plagues the IGS and in general forum venue. An effort to be loudest voice in the room. I know at times my character has suffered for it.

Fix it. I try to say. And to anyone who doesn't agree, hate them for it.

And then comes my blame of the older crowd, something more and more I'm coming to realize isn't fair. I shouldn't be mad at you, Silas, or anyone else with veterancy in the RP community for not being able to leash human nature as well as the nature of the game.

I don't know what to say... other than I'm really sorry for being such a bitch OOC'ly and even so under a number of ways IC'ly.   :cry:



That isn't who I want to be.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2013, 13:28 by Isis Dea »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #87 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:35 »

I think that's part of my problem. I see role-play as a partial means of giving back to a world I've found escape in for so long. Over the past four years I really decided to get involved in RP, at first very little, an occasional fiction here or there, then in time to private channels.

This last year I drew the assumption that players first try their luck at the lore of EVE via the IGS and also The Summit, which is where you find the most human of interactions.

Wanting to give back, I guess part of me really wanted to attack that cesspool that plagues the IGS and in general forum venue. An effort to be loudest voice in the room. I know at times my character has suffered for it.

Fix it. I try to say. And to anyone who doesn't agree, hate them for it.

And then comes my blame of the older crowd, something more and more I'm coming to realize isn't fair. I shouldn't be mad at you, Silas, or anyone else with veterancy in the RP community for not being able to leash human nature as well as the nature of the game.

I don't know what to say... other than I'm really sorry for being such a bitch OOC'ly and even so under a number of ways IC'ly.   :cry:

You're gonna be fine, just maybe don't come on like a bull in a china shop so much and don't be afraid to lose an occasional argument IC now and then.  Do your thing.

Having a character that hates the IGS or Summit denizens is super 100% valid, do your thing.

Hating the IGS and the Summit denizens ooc is also perhaps valid, do your thing if you like. 

Wrapping the two together can cause issues is all, and I've done a fair amount of head scratching as to how disliking a thing so much corresponds to spending time with that same thing.

We're all paying money (or time) for internet spaceship and fictional interaction, we should try and have a good time doing those things with people we like doing those things with, and maybe not with those people we don't have fun with if they bother us so much.





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Lunarisse Aspenstar

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #88 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:37 »

I believe you forgot to drink to:

I can't believe you made me agree with my most mortal enemy ever.

Luna's been annoyed at how often she agrees with Silas  :oops:

But yeah, be true to yourself and your character and have fun.  You don't need others to self-validate you.  If it's not fun, maybe the character is being written into a corner. 

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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Surviving RP
« Reply #89 on: 15 Nov 2013, 13:41 »


Luna's been annoyed at how often she agrees with Silas  :oops:

The siren song continues. Those first steps on the path to personal empowerment are the most difficult!

 
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