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[Lyn Farel]

There is something people should be told more about and ready to face when coming to the point of detaching oneself of the game itself and focusing on pure RP things with the game as a background mostly, which happens to most people at various scale at some point.

You will eventually be looked down by newer players that consider that gameplay is sacred and building IC sandcastles besides is to be utterly nuked. Newer players that have yet to come to that specific crossroads. Theoretically if you have done enough deeds in your past to back it up, it should not be a big issue.

[Merdaneth]

I ran into a 'Meh' period probably between 2 and 3 years into Eve - just logging in occasionally to chat, stuff like that.

I'm not very good at 'meh' playing. I'd like either to pursue something with passion, or not put much time into it.

I still do like the game, and mechanically its gotten better, but because the goals I love to achieve aren't achievable in the time I'm willing to spend on EVE.

Most aspects of gameplay felt better the first few times than when I've done them a thousand times over. Moreso for PvE activities and less so for interacting with other players. I used to love posting my killsmails on corp forum and discussing particular fights, but after a couple of hundred kills, it loses its luster.

My personal Golden Age was 0-3 years into the game. When most gameplay was still fresh and involved learning new stuff. Now I'm much better at predicting outcomes of things I do (both mechanically, but also RP-wise), which sadly tends to make it less interesting and reduces my actual sense of choice and freedom. It sometimes difficult to explain to bright-eyed new players why you sometimes don't undock with those high-sec war deccers around. I mean, they have a much smaller ship, and are sitting there on the undock ripe for the shooting! Why aren't the more experienced players undocking to make use of this golden opportunity? .... 

I'm also better a predicting the amount of effort and time it takes to get fun things off the ground within a diverse community of on-and-off volunteers like EVE is and that it takes *a lot* of time and effort to be a content-creator instead of mostly a content-consumer.

I also believe that to use EVE as a glorified chat channel can actually be detrimental to the gameplay of others. You create an illusion of people being there, but they tend to be people not willing to put much time and effort into cooperative gameplay (although maybe sometimes their characters say the would). Lot of people in chat channels, corps, alliances or other EVE venues seem to be lurking and waiting for someone else to come along and entertain them. Someone else to create content for them. Reactive play as it were. I prefer not to play that way.

Basically, what do you want to get out of EVE? What are the goals that excite you as a player, and can they be reasonably met with the tools you have on hand? If you don't have goals, or little hope of achieving the goals with the tools you have, then you might as well not play.

[BloodBird]

Basically, what do you want to get out of EVE?  Plenty, however... What are the goals that excite you as a player, and can they be reasonably met with the tools you have on hand? ...no, they can't. My goals would require quite a great deal of work. It will take time, Time I don't have. If you don't have goals, or little hope of achieving the goals with the tools you have, then you might as well not play. I don't, for the most part. Hence my issue today. Lots of thing I'd *want* to do, little that I *can* do.

The pay I have given to CCP in the form of formerly 5 accounts, now 3, that have been subscribed for, over the last 3 years of general inactivity is substantial. It is perhaps 4-5 months since I sold Jesmine and another toon, so the last 4-5 months is only 100 crowns per account per month, so 1200 at best 1500 at worst. However, add to that the 1200 per year per toon before that, and you get 1200x5=6000x3=18000 in addition to the 1500 at worst, making my expenses for my indecision and inability to just un-sub and properly quit, some 19500 crowns, or 2414-something Euro. Needless to say, I should likely decide to return to EVE and *do something* or pull the plug and walk away, sooner rather than later.

[Safai]

I've been at a 'meh' period for a long time now, since my last break for school, and feel like I have to figure out how to have fun with EVE again. And judging by the amount of replies I have yet to read here, I might not be alone in that.

[Isis Dea]

Invite on some crazy RPers, ones who immediately seek to push people's buttons and/or violate lore in their agendas. OOC-wise, help them on-track their statements within lore (and praise them if you feel they're walking an interesting path, for you know they're fixing to invite all kinds of heat from the community) then IC brawl with them. But don't attack credit, instead empower their credit by endorsing them. After all your character is in a state of "meh" and wants to see something interesting. Suddenly the little nooblet is backed by a power player and that'll give them the confidence to stir the pot even further.

Imagine if Diana Kim, as laughable as she might be, actually had support from the Caldari power player RPers?

*eye twitch*

But would it be interesting?

That's your problem. That's everyone's problem. In the older days people were inviting in a new or bold idea. These days everyone's still trying to champion an old idea, so much so that they don't realize they've already won. They are, in fact, the last people standing within a community. Which means a new person can point fingers at you in saying it's somewhat up to you to endorse or ignite the flames of New Eden again, even if it's purely for lulz.

Or you can settle for "meh" which works too… in which case it's only a matter of time before you're gone and a more interesting crowd takes your place.

I personally like to think there's a number of you here who actually have ideas that go along the lines of: "This is insane… But the result would be incredibly interesting…"

It might not even lead to war, or even multiple wars, but rather just one ploy to put the community against itself. Yet you know you've done something right if it invites in new blood and overall stirs the pot.

[John Revenent]

Join me in world domination Sil, no-one will stand against our combined... *cough*

No I totally understand where you are coming from, I am currently playing eve for maybe an hour to three max. Though I don't give up hope that things will change, mostly because frak any other MMO out there that gives me the chance to immerse myself in boothead executorship.

[Myyona]

I am about to give up on Eve Online, though. Mostly because I no longer have the time for gaming as I used to, due to family/parent obligations that I did not have in the past. The few hours I can still use for gaming is much better spend on something which allows to be paused and saved at any moment. I had a vague hope that Eve-O would be having more casual content by now, but that appears to be way down the roadmap.

But it is truly hard to let go of a hobby that has brought enjoyment for ten years.

[Vic Van Meter]

I am about to give up on Eve Online, though. Mostly because I no longer have the time for gaming as I used to, due to family/parent obligations that I did not have in the past. The few hours I can still use for gaming is much better spend on something which allows to be paused and saved at any moment. I had a vague hope that Eve-O would be having more casual content by now, but that appears to be way down the roadmap.

But it is truly hard to let go of a hobby that has brought enjoyment for ten years.

There are other MMOs out there with a bent towards more casual gaming, if you want to keep playing a social online game without the inherent time constraints.  In fact, MMO is slowly becoming a misnomer because there are a LOT of games with open world, online content.  FFXIV was rereleased to decent fanfare, The Elder Scrolls Online looks ready for release next year, Star Citizen will be done next year in time for Christmas, I imagine.  And there's always It Which Must Not Be Named, whose new expansion was announced a few days ago.

I'm sure other people here could point you in the direction of other titles.  It seems like a lot of the "meh" factor is coming from more casual players only playing EVE as a secondary pursuit to another game.

[Lyn Farel]

I am not interested in any other MMO (bar Star Citizen maybe, and perhaps Black Desert Online which doesnt look so promising...) to begin with, so the meh factor is also playing eve just because there is no other alternative.

[Elmund Egivand]

I am not interested in any other MMO (bar Star Citizen maybe, and perhaps Black Desert Online which doesnt look so promising...) to begin with, so the meh factor is also playing eve just because there is no other alternative.

Once one starts with Eve, all the other MMOs felt so dull.

[Lyn Farel]

Maybe, though I find Eve rather dull on many sides itself. Eve has a lot of revolutionary concepts for a sandbox, but it hardly gets away from all the standard shitty mechanisms proper to other MMOs :

- Farming
- Classes (=Ships)
- DPS/Heal/Tank trinity
- etc

It's still a lot better for all the rest that makes it good though.

[Elmund Egivand]

Maybe, though I find Eve rather dull on many sides itself. Eve has a lot of revolutionary concepts for a sandbox, but it hardly gets away from all the standard shitty mechanisms proper to other MMOs :

- Farming
- Classes (=Ships)
- DPS/Heal/Tank trinity
- etc

It's still a lot better for all the rest that makes it good though.

Yeah, it still has other common MMO gripes but I found it considerably less dull than, say, Guild Wars 2 solely because nothing seems scripted. If I want to do something, I can. Usually anyway. I want to be the Evil Overlord and this game gives me the tools just to do that. I want to bring criminal scums to justice by my own terms and this game gives me just what I need to accomplish that. I want to travel far and wide and put phallic symbols all over the place I had visited and again, the game lets me do exactly that too. I can't think of any other MMO that lets me do all these instead of chaperoning me through a theme park ride.

[Jade Constantine]

For me I think it was that the community and feel of Eve changed. It got larger, more influenced by groups of players that didn't care about the plot or background and in turn produced devs who didn't care much either (simply because ccp recruits from the player base). I think Eve in the early years was a bit like a niche cult nightclub where edgy (slightly weird) people used to hang out and it was a buzz to hang around and make things happen. But it got more popular, went a bit more mainstream, some of the eccentrics and characters disappeared and the flavor of the place was diluted. Also, its worth admitting that we all got older too and ended up having less time to play MMO's ...

RP community ended up fighting less in actuality and more in pure RP (forums, channels etc) and left the actual achieving things to other non RP'ers and general gaming guilds etc. I'm a bit old fashioned in that I like to actually play the game I'm paying for rather than the chat channel.

In the end most of the people I was interested in interacting with ended up leaving or burning out and it was evident that CCP had chosen a direction for the game that was about nullsec blocs as the unquestioned aristocracy and small outfits would have no look in. The wardec changes a couple of years ago were my rubicon really - they were so incredibly unbalanced in favour of huge alliances it made it clear that the way I'd enjoyed playing in the intervening years was not even a blip on ccp's radar.

So that's probably the end of my eve story.

That said I've had a brilliant time this year going back to another old hobby of mine in live roleplay in the UK with a system called Empire LARP by Profound Decisions. Its 3000 odd players with a good gender mix from young families to oldies a political game that depicts a critical challenge to a human led empire surrounded by barbarians after a disastrous military campaign leads to the death of much of the leadership.

I think much of the appeal is in the size - 3000 is impressive without being dehumanizing - there are epic battles with a thousand people on the field, but the empire is run by 30 senators and individual heroes and villains matter. If you can fight you can lead and leadership can be decisive in the scale of the encounters and actions there, 30 people can hold a pass, turn the battle, and turn defeat to victory and live to tell the tale. Its truly great stuff and I've been spending my money on armour, tents, set dressings and taking my family along to take part in this stuff. They have a great living, evolving background and plot, you can change things in "live events" you make decisions, you win a reputation and write your name into the lore and setting. I love the attitude of the management team and it really helps me suspend disbelief and enjoy the game.

7-8 years ago I would have been telling my friends the same about Eve Online more or less.

But somewhere on the way Eve lost its way and some of its soul when pandering to the largest groups of players became more important than telling a story and letting us play truly dynamic space opera.

Still the anecdotes are great!

[Wanoah]

What Jade said, basically.

I reactivated a while back to take a look at things. I tooled around for a while, looking at stuff I hadn't seen before. I chuckled at the folly of the captain's quarters. I refitted ships because the slot layout had changed (WTF?). Then I looked through my address book. As I went through the names, I noted how many of them hadn't been active in years. Some old friends and acquaintances don't even have portraits now: they quit that long ago and never came back. Others - long-established characters in Eve with a real history - have been biomassed. Frankly, it depressed me so much that I didn't bother logging in again and the sub lapsed after a month.

[Victoria Stecker]

The game has certainly changed a lot in the last decade, and in the 4ish years since I started playing. To be fair, I was never here when it was "good" and I learned about the game from someone already bitter about it (♥ Kazzzi). On the other hand, I tend to absorb stories like a sponge, so I can kinda picture how things used to be.

For example, Nullsec used to be held by generally smaller power blocks. Smaller alliances and outfits had their own niches, even if only in places that the bigger blocks didn't want (Providence). Semi-RP corps like Old CVA were important to the game. Think about the news stories from back then -

 - and compare them to today. What makes the news today? Four thousand people in a system. Someone whelping a bunch of supers. SOMERblink.

Look at the people that CCP hires to move the game forward.

The game really has changed.

I ran into a 'Meh' period probably between 2 and 3 years into Eve - just logging in occasionally to chat, stuff like that.

I'm not very good at 'meh' playing. I'd like either to pursue something with passion, or not put much time into it.

This. I realized after about 2 years that I'd stopped playing and was just logging in to chat with people. I decided to stop paying money for that. Sadly, that means I'm not really in touch with anyone anymore. Oh well.

However, even I have started to mellow in my attitude towards the community a bit. Eve RP seems to be very much an 'in' or 'out' crowd situation, with both groups having their issues with the other. Whether this is "elitism" or "derp" doesn't matter too much, the point I'm trying to make is that Eve RP is currently very divided even amongst itself, and this seems to me to be something that needs working on.

This isn't really new or unique. The EVE RP scene has always been pretty nasty. While there's certainly still pleny of vitriol to go around, it's been pretty tame of late. Because of :factors: that you could write another thread about, EVE RP grabs people more than most. This means that conflicts become big deals rather than little ones. Lack of non-game-related OOC interaction means that in-character/in-game beefs don't get tempered, that sort of thing. I actually recall Backstage being credited with helping save the RP community (whatever exactly that is) from self-desctructing. Proof that times have changed? I can't remember the last time Graelyn or Jade had a good throw-down. The closest we have to that is people dog-piling on Leo or Vea, and that's little league.

That said, things have perhaps gotten a little nastier as of late. Perhaps we're headed for another trip to the cess pit before civility returns.